this post was submitted on 28 Apr 2024
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There’s a tendency in this heated political climate to simply reject people who are saying false things and to write off conspiracy theorists writ large.

But as the US approaches the third straight election in which misinformation — and the fight against it — is expected to play a role, it’s important to understand what’s driving people who don’t believe in US elections.

I talked to O’Sullivan about the documentary, in which he has some frank and disarming talks with people about what has shaken their belief in the US. But he paints an alarming picture about the rise of fringe movements in the country.

Our conversation, conducted by phone and edited for length, is below:

WOLF: What were you trying to accomplish with this project?

O’SULLIVAN: So much of mainstream American politics now is being infected and affected by what is happening on what was once considered the real fringes — fringe platforms, fringe personalities.

And I think really what we want to do in this show is illustrate how these personalities may be pushing falsehoods, but they’re no longer fringe. This is all happening right now. And it is having a big effect on our democracy.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Misinformation has been around before the written word and while many are pointing the finger at the Internet for making it worse, I am not convinced it has. I mean all bought trickle down economics before the Internet for example.

[–] minnow 21 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Trickle down economics, as a theory, has been around well over 100 years, and it's never been believed in by everybody. Hell, a presidential candidate gave a speech against the idea in 1896

You're correct about misinformation having been around forever, but access to and ease to create misinformation is greater than ever before thanks to the Internet.

[–] TubularTittyFrog -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

the internet also lets propagandists and propaganda consumers find each other in speed, volume, and frequency, in a way that unprecedented.

and the sad fact that is many many many people spend most of their waking hours consuming internet content these days. at least, anyone under 40. The only people I know who watch TV or read papers are all over 50. Hell, just finding anyone under 40 who reads a magazine or some other long-format type of information is incredibly rare. Why read The Economist when you can just subscribe to their tiktok feed?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I've been alive both before and after the internet and it's DRASTICALLY worse now.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Of course the Internet has made it worse. It did so initially by giving a platform to hucksters, fascists and frauds that let them find like minded people that otherwise would not have convalesced around them.

Social media optimized this process, and now algorithms design entire custom made echo chambers that reinforce and amplify the outrageous because it profitable to do so, as rage and violence keep people on the platform, churning though ads.

Youre right that capitalism, the unending profit motive that must increase is the true source of the damage, but the internet has been a powerful engine in its conquest of truth for profit.

[–] rayyy 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You have forgotten the feedback and psychological magnification of technology. Written word was just put out there. Focus groups became more prominent with TV ads. The internet provided a whole new set of tools like algorithms and data analysis to study and more effectively sway people's thinking. Putin has developed a whole new type of hybrid warfare using cyber technology.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

I agree. I think what we’re seeing is a lot of Americans being failed by society writ large. Corporate America no longer upholds their side of the social contract (working 40hr doesn’t always guarantee enough money for a person to support themselves, let alone retirement or healthcare). They’re dumping all this money into politics to push their own narratives, and it’s blatantly obvious they’re doing it.

Why trust the process when the process is bad? Of course misinformation is everywhere. Misinformation is a symptom of our societal failures here, the internet and 24hr news is just the delivery method.

[–] FlyingSquid 0 points 7 months ago

All? Hardly. They called it 'voodoo economics' back in the 80s for a reason.

[–] btaf45 0 points 7 months ago

I mean all bought trickle down economics before the Internet for example.

Nope. The media just wanted you to think that. They constantly showed archconservative politicians peddling the nonsense and never showed anybody questioning it. Then the internet came along and most people said "of course it doesn't work very well lol". And suddenly everybody realized that most people never believed it.