this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2024
185 points (94.7% liked)

World News

39039 readers
2617 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Estonia’s top military commander said fresh intelligence on Russia’s ability to produce ammunition and recruit troops has prompted a re-evaluation among NATO allies and a spate of warnings to prepare for a long-term conflict.

Martin Herem, the commander of the Estonian Defense Forces, said predictions that Russian forces would reach the limits of their resources haven’t come true. President Vladimir Putin’s military has the capacity to produce several million artillery shells a year, far outstripping European efforts, and can recruit hundreds of thousands of new troops, he said.

The general from Estonia, which shares a nearly 300-kilometer (186-mile) border with Russia, joins a growing number of North Atlantic Treaty Organization military chiefs who have warned over the past month that the alliance should prepare for a war footing with the Kremlin. Herem referenced an earlier estimate that Russia could produce a million artillery shells a year.

“A lot of people thought they couldn’t go beyond that — today, the facts tell us otherwise,” Herem said in an interview in Tallinn. “They can produce even more — many times more — ammunition.”

Non-paywall link

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 113 points 9 months ago (2 children)

TL;DR: Russia can produce ammunition for trash weapons at great speed, and has vast amounts of untrained meat to throw at the front lines.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Yeah, the real problem isn't sending weapons to Ukraine, it's the problem that occurs when Ukraine runs out of ammo, or people to operate said weapons.

The US (and NATO) has often measured its ability to wage war by spending (in dollars, or percentage of GDP). Spending on single high tech missiles that costs millions are included here. So those numbers look really impressive. But if those missiles aren't being used (because they're too expensive, or we can't risk them being recovered and reverse engineered), and are kept in reserve indefinitely, then what remains is an ammunition gap.

Furthermore, I am of the strong opinion that Ukraine loses, eventually, unless NATO boots are on the ground in Ukraine, and NATO planes are in the air above. It doesn't matter what the exchange ratio of casualties is once the available manpower in Ukraine is low enough. And without air superiority, Russia wins a ground war given enough time.

I realize that NATO boots on the ground constitutes an escalation. So we should do it slowly, like turning up the temperature on the pot of frogs.

Lastly, if we're going to spend so many billions on missiles, they should be ABMs (anti ballistic missiles).

I am but an armchair general, sitting comfy in Canada. I've got a family map of Ukraine here with Melitopol circled that says "grandfather's birthplace" -- my family fled due to Russification 120 years ago. It seems Russia never changes.

[–] Chainweasel 40 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

I realize that NATO boots on the ground constitutes an escalation. So we should do it slowly, like turning up the temperature on the pot of frogs.

I slightly disagree with this point, I think the first time a single NATO boot hits the ground in Ukraine Russia will see it as an escalation and respond in kind. They've been posturing and playing a game of brinkmanship for decades and lately they've started probing NATO defenses in Poland.
Call me crazy but I think Putin wants this to escalate so he can draft every able bodied person and enact a "Total War" policy.
So if we're going to put boots on the ground, we need to put as many as possible right away

[–] grue 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Call me crazy but I think Putin wants this to escalate so he can draft every able bodied person and enact a “Total War” policy.

A "Total War" with Russia would be nuclear. Either you think Putin is suicidal, or we need a new term to describe "total except for nuclear" war.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

I mean, it would be a general mobilisation, probably with the immediate nationalisation of all industry, and a formal declaration of war

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I was thinking the same thing.

If we were to actually get involved, kick it off with an A-10 singing the song of it's people, and eliminate all russian forces in Ukraine in no greater than 24 hours.

If you're not willing to do that then just stay home, we've seen how the 'slow war' style goes.

[–] Zron 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The A10 has a track record of friendly fire.

I don’t think it’s a wise use of resources to give the Ukrainians a bunch of tanks, only to send a tank killer aircraft that’s known for killing friendly vehicles because of old ass targeting systems.

[–] cynar 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I'm reminded of a WWII slogan.

When the English bomb, the Germans run.

When the Germans bomb, the English run.

When the Americans bomb, Everybody runs!

The Americans particularly have a checkered history of joint operations. They seem to have a shoot first, identify the target later mentality.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Now we understand all the police violence. They’re just terrible at it

[–] cynar 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

British armed response officers are highly trained, and closely monitored (mental health wise). They'll use precisely the amount of force needed, and very little more. Even then, every bullet fired in the field is a sign of a failure. It's analysed to see what could be improved, in future.

American police seem to replace this all with volume of fire. Maybe also a few shots of whisky afterwards, to cover mental health.

I definitely see similarities between the police mentalities and the matching army mentalities.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Heck, it was a tradition that british officers didn’t carry firearms with them, and only special units had them (not sure whether it still is a tradition).

[–] cynar 2 points 9 months ago

Normal British police officers carry a Tazer at most. Even that requires additional training, including being on the receiving end of it. The UK generally uses "police by consent" rather than "police by force".

The armed officers are part of the armed response units, roughly the equivalent of SWAT. Outside of emergency response, they often work in airports or high profile events. An armed officer, out on patrol would be seen as an extremely heavy handed response to something. While it does happen, I've never personally seen it happen.

[–] partial_accumen 7 points 9 months ago

I slightly disagree with this point, I think the first time a single NATO boot hits the ground in Ukraine Russia will see it as an escalation and respond in kind.

"Respond in kind" would be Russia putting boots on the ground.

Call me crazy but I think Putin wants this to escalate so he can draft every able bodied person and enact a “Total War” policy.

What good would that do Russia? He'd have more "meat waves", but Russia is already destroyed half of its military in vehicles and aircraft. Its stripping distant military bases, but that leaves Russia's back open. China would love a defenseless Russian border.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Ukraine will lose because Russia has managed to turn up their war time economy to 1000 while the West has given away most of the stockpiles it was willing to commit and has failed to put their money where their mouhts are and actually start a real war economy.

We are giving Ukraine just enoth to not lose at this point. And with Israel taking away the spotlight and adding another nation that is in need of war supplies, Ukraine will run dry eventually.

All the big words of the west on the end will habe been but a lie. And the rest of the world will see this and see it very well, when it comes to who they pick as their allies.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago

It doesn’t matter what the exchange ratio of casualties is once the available manpower in Ukraine is low enough.

At current casualty rates, that would take a very long time. Much more likely is one side or the other deciding that the cost isn't worth it, not running out of material ability to continue the fight.

[–] pennomi 4 points 9 months ago

Furthermore, I am of the strong opinion that Ukraine loses, eventually, unless NATO boots are on the ground in Ukraine

I think you’re right, and there’s going to be dreadful fallout no matter what NATO chooses to do.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

NATO likely isn't interested in Ukraine outright winning. It's far more beneficial for them that Russia is tied up in an endless stalemate and resistance conflict for a decade. Yes this means essentially sacrificing Ukraine, but it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago

I strongly disagree. The benefits of having Ukraine as an ally are much bigger and longer lasting than the effects of this conflict. That’s why neither side wants to compromise.

[–] veganpizza69 34 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Mass late-game zergling strategy?

[–] 32b99410_da5b 18 points 9 months ago (2 children)

NATO needs to research blue flame, stagger a line of siege tanks, and maybe pump out some liberators.

[–] Burn_The_Right 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Putin's keystrokes per minute is abysmal.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Did you mean APM?

[–] nevemsenki 2 points 9 months ago

He's a protoss main at heart.

[–] someguy3 4 points 9 months ago

Sir, this is StarCraft 1.

[–] Anti_Face_Weapon 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This is the first screenshot of this game that has made me want to play it

[–] ripcord 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] Anti_Face_Weapon 1 points 9 months ago

What do you like about them? Just curious about your perspective.