this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2025
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Robocop is a scathing critique on capitalism. What's nuts is I don't think everyone gets that. It's literally the underlying theme of the movie.
Same thing happens with starship troopers. People miss the fact it's a critique of fascism and colonialism even though the movie ends with Nazi uniforms.
Verhoeven is an understated genius.
We haven't gone far enough down the timeline to see little X$Σ≞ Musk cutting off the mutant's air supply on Mars yet, but I have confidence we'll get there.
I need Verhoeven to fuck my shit up today. What other movie of him will do that?
try "Flesh and Blood (1985)" its nasty
I didn't get that when I watched it, it was just a great action movie for me. But to be fair I was 12.
In all fairness, the Starship Troopers sequels forget the point of the first film too. And the fact that movies are supposed to be watchable.
I had no idea there was a sequel. Based on what you say about it, I'll try to fake believing that is still the case.
The actual IP gem is the early 2000s CGI cartoon Roughnecks that was far closer to the original book. Underrated, bit also hard to find.
There are 4 sequels. I think I have only seen most of 2 and a part of 3. They're super low budget and completely miss the point, as I recall.
Four! lol, oh man, I bet they get awful.
It was certainly a waste of my Family Video rental fee
But the movie has cool guns and explosions so who cares about that when we have shiny thing?
The issue is Starship Troopers is not fascist, it is more obvious in the book compared to the film. The society is described as multicultural and multiracial with only a very competitive merit based society. While “citizenship” is stuck behind service, it includes all kinds of service, and the army is required to take all people who wish to become no matter their physical state. Not being a citizen does not stop people from engaging in commerce or becoming wealthy or voicing your opinions on topics. Citizens really only get the opportunity to vote and preference in government jobs and programs.
The society as described by Heinlein definitely ticks many of the boxes for fascism, much like platypuses tick many of the boxes for being a mammal.
The only real box i can think of is restrictive voting, but even then the path to voting rights is open to everyone. The only other definitive fascist thing is the speedy trial and execution in the movie, but that can be vague authoritarianism to future policing and evidence. We don’t get to know enough about the economics of ST to really say.
You don't think The Federation was nationalistic or militaristic?
Neither of which are inherently fascist.
You said you could only think of one box it checks, so I gave you more boxes.
Now you're telling me no individual box mentioned is inherently fascist.
Do you see how you're moving the goal posts?
How many boxes does a government need to check before it can be considered fascist? Does it have to contain a Consul guarded by people in tunics carrying fasces or it's just Sparkling Authoritarianism?
Nationalism and militarism are not inherently fascist. A society can be nationalist and militarist and not be fascist.
I didn't say they were. Reread this thread.
The movie clearly shows meritocratic rainbow fascism is coherent with fascism. Every pore of that society exudes fascism.
The film was loosely based on the book and was explicitly written as a critique on fascism and the book. Verhoeven and Neumeier have said as much.
But also, I don't think you know what fascism is. There's always people in a fascist state that have a good quality of life. The question is what happens to people that don't fit in the state mold? What happens to enemies of the state? Who gets classified as an enemy of the state? Who holds power or can hold power in the state? The fact that to be a citizen you'd have to start by joining the state party is de-facto a fascist state.
If you were part of the Nazi party in germany as a non-jew/communist/or someone with a disability. Life was pretty good. So good that US newspapers had Hitler as person of the year and sung him praises. They had commerce and a strong economy with most people having great lives. Nazis were popular and liked by the people because they saw them as making their lives better. And you could get a high ranking position in the government by joining the military and serving a term.
In the film, the enemies were the Arachnids. War started because of the colonization of arachnid territories and extermination was the next order of business. Even though Arachnids are depicted as being thinking and intelligent beings. That was the point of the final scene "It's afraid!". Rather than try to understand or communicate with the alien/foreigner/etc, the government prioritized extermination and learning to make it fear them.
“A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.”
I do not believe we know enough about the government or economy to call Starship Troopers fascism.
Centralization of authority under a dictator. In the books, we know very little about the Sky Marshal, in truth it isn’t revealed if they lead the civilian government at all, or if they’re just the equivalent of the highest ranking general. In the movies we do know the lead the civilian government and take a commander in chief role, but not enough about their powers to call them a dictator. Also, the incredibly high turnover rate I believe demonstrates it is not a dictatorship.
Capitalist economy under strict government controls. Again i think we do not know enough about the civilian economy to say. Though noncitizens participating and being wealthy might imply less control.
Violent suppression of the opposition. In the case of the Arachnids this is true, but internal opposition is never addressed. It appears that citizens and non citizens have some ability to oppose the ruling party. Voting rights are talked about in a way where people are optimistic they can make an impact for the better, implying some form of opposition. Also, we have no clue what the Arachnids were doing before the book or film. Contested space, where both parties are expanding, means conflict will arise. The Arachnids are also a credible threat, not a scapegoat.
Policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. True for the most part against Arachnids. I think the fascism argument cracks when you think further and realize the Arachnids cannot communicate at all to humans, we have 0 indicators at their intentions. The fact humanity is united and there seems to be no racism amongst humans towards each other is also not a hallmark of fascism.
I'd buy that for a dollar!
This is off topic and super nerdy.
The phrase was originally "I'd buy that for a quarter" and it came from a story called "The Marching Morons" by CM Kornbluth.
That story was the basis of the movie "Idiocracy."
This also applies to Warhammer 40K. Not everyone seems to get that universe is messed up.