414
this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
414 points (98.1% liked)
politics
19117 readers
4024 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Its the next political bulwark and where we rally next. If Trump runs over that bulwark, then we make plans afterwards.
But the Military will NOT want to be seen going house-to-house deporting Puerto Rican American Citizens. I know there's a lot of racists out there, but if they do that, we just take some pictures and the national level outrage and blatant racism on the troop's faces will be shown for everyone. And trust me, if a mass deportation order were invoked, 100% legal US Citizens will be swept up in the blatantly racist attack.
These people cannot tell the difference from an illegal Mexican, a legal Haitian or a US Citizen Puerto Rican. I'm serious. So that's no longer a Trump-specific thing at that point. That's commanders and soldiers who will have to live with that for the rest of their lives.
If the second Bush era taught us anything, it's that there's plenty of soldiers willing to live with things for the rest of their lives.
This is a border patrol agent invading a Miami Home to take that small boy on the right (Elian Gonzalez) back to Cuba.
This was a defining moment of the 1990s. What happened here was a Cuban family had a claim on Elian Gonzalez, meaning not only was he an illegal alien, arguably the US-side of the Family was kidnapping him. Gonzalez's father (Cuban side) pushed heavily for US to get Elian back. Ultimately, Clinton agreed with the Father and used deportation agents to capture the child and bring him back to Cuba (effectively deporting him).
Nonetheless, armed troops invading a Miami private home caused a national-level outrage event. Even though it was a 100% illegal alien with a 100% legitimate claim to be deported (ie: be reunited with his Father).
The stories of what will transpire here under Trump will be far more horrific and less gray. They will likely include US Citizens who forgot to hold onto a Driver's License and suddenly are disappeared (especially if he uses untrained dumbasses like US Military, composed largely of 18 year olds who were too dumb to go to college).
We can rely upon the outrage that will occur, but only if we document and take pictures of the horror. The focus needs to be on documenting the horrors as the next step. In any case, no reasonable troop will want to be seen as the man on the left, and no commander will want to be the one to sign their name okaying something like this again.
That also ignores 4th Amendment issues and court cases. How many homes and warrants are they going to issue? Just fucking everyone in a neighborhood? Like how do you actually make this work?
I remember when this happened and think about it often and its significant impact in the world of spin, media bias, and disinformation.
We don't get such large media stories about immigrants here in Texas. We just get small articles about dozens of people watched drowning while crossing the river or suffocating in train cars.
The people here are numb and complacent about those stories and they'll soon be downright malicious when they realize no one cares or everyone is too scared to do anything.
There's pretty much one solution to this problem, as the Germans found out. These people will be placed in concentration camps while they languish and slowly die.
Passive voice because you're ignorant. Who will place people in concentration camps?
Because the who is incredibly important in this scenario and tells us how to fight. Are you saying the military will be deployed to create concentration camps across America? Are you saying local Police need to build these camps and maintain them? Or, does Donald trump need to pass a new law + build a new organization from scratch that will oversee this?
For-profit prison system still requires $$$$ to be pumped in for it to work. Where does Trump get the money for these facilities? Do the local states pay for them?
I'm talking about our serious next option here. Not pie in the sky fantasy scenarios. The realistic move is a boneheaded attempt by Trump to deploy the military for a mass deportation attempt, but he hasn't thought that far ahead yet. He hasn't figured out where people will be imprisoned, he hasn't figured out how to train the military for this task. He hasn't figured out US Citizen rights during deportation sweeps. He hasn't figured out jurisdiction yet. Etc. etc.
There's details to the plan that we can disrupt as it comes into fruition. We resist at every step and stop it at every turn possible.
The red state police (like state troopers), red city police, county sheriffs, and any number of federal agencies under homeland security and DOJ.
There plenty of personnel available to make the lives of people here both legally and illegally miserable. And remember, the misery is the point.
Directly capturing and imprisoning / deporting only 5% of this population would make a huge impact on inflicting misery and fear.
As far as what people will and won't do when given orders, almost nobody in this country who works full time has any safety net or nest egg. If you decide to quit your job on principle, many people are less than 6 months away from eviction. That makes it very difficult to stand your mortal ground without solidarity. Blue regions might develop that solidarity. In red regions, seems less likely.
Trump pissed on the FBI and continues to piss on it.
What's this DoJ you talk about? Trump is too stupid to use it for his own gains.
You are right if Trump was smart enough to take over. But I'm not sure he is smart enough. Secondly, even if he does take over DoJ and FBI, it will take time before his loyalists truly know how to use the agency or spin up their programs.
That's what Project 2025 is, dude. He doesn't need to know how to do it. He just points to the people that say his name the most, and they get to run the most powerful military in the history of the world, and they're already prepared.
And Republicans think 2025 is liberal propaganda. It will be different when it truly starts.
Listen, just because you haven't paid attention to the things the Trump team has published and said doesn't mean you need to call someone else ignorant.
Theyve already said they plan to use local agencies to assist and anyone refusing would lose their federal funding. There are PLENTY of Sheriffs that would jump on the chance to round people up. Your assumption that the feds, ICE, and CBP won't play ball is completely unfounded. They have people already lined up for positions they need to make this happen. That's on top of Trump's former campaign manager literally saying they want assistance from their followers as "shock troops" for this as well. They've begun targeting sites for new detention centers near large cities. All of this shit you should already know Mr Expert.
You want to make the argument that theyre too incompetent to be successful, fine. That's probably our biggest safety net right now. But acting like it's not possible or that they don't have explicit plans is asinine.
And what will anyone be able to do about it? That's the problem with installing a fascist autocracy. Outrage does not deter fascists. The left needs to organize and be prepared to physically obstruct these actions, and that is not going to be without danger.
He also stated he is going to courtmartial past and present commanders. I will assume that is so those that are left are like Russias, loyal to a fault.
We tie it to deep state federal officials invading private US Homes. And then Republican support collapses over the events.
Speak the language of the Republicans and they'll agree with you on this. Invading private homes with US Troops, looking for contraban (ie: illegal immigrants in this case) with mass warrants would be uncomfortable to even Republicans in these areas.
If Republicans really are cool with this then whatever. Onto the next bulwark. But we need to prepare our arguments and discussion points. But we will work to defend our political rights at each stage of this process as Trump tries to do random bullshit.
I agree that it's worth trying. If Republicans can be persuaded that the "deep state" is becoming more intrusive it might provoke some questioning on their part. But I fear they would just retreat to "Those people must have done something to bring it upon themselves," and "It won't happen to me or my friends." Until it does, when they'll be shocked but also silenced.
Outrage can stop it if we present it in the correct argument to them.
What happens to the assets of illegal aliens that are deported? I bet that the police seizes it and then its auctioned off (or something close to that). So now we have a pretty straightforward story of federal level officials invading the homes of US Citizens and trying to steal their bitcoins.
The far-right outrage writes itself at that point, if they really go the route of mass deportations. But we need to make the event truly outrageous when it happens, and not just in a leftist mindset. The truth of mass deporations is horrific even to those with far-right viewpoints. But you have to frame the argument correctly.
What part of people voting for this exact scenario makes you think they aren't going to be "cool" with it happening? Hell, Hispanic people voted for this. Why is it my job to save them from what they asked for? If we keep bailing out idiots when they do dumb things they will never learn how dumb they are.
I'm not banking on that happening in large enough numbers to change anything but I am not batman either. We signed up for this and we all need to realize what that actually means if we want to have any hope of making better decisions in the future. Some of us won't learn until well after that knock on the door and I don't have anything to say about that other than I'm not the one knocking.
US Neighborhoods aren't organized into "illegal" parts and "legal" areas.
A mass deportation scheme means hassling, and likely invading, many legitimate homes of legitimate citizens. And once we start talking about what Republicans hide in their homes, its.... well... the usual stuff. Porn, Guns, and the like. But that's not the kind of things that Republicans like revealing to federal officials.
Any mass deportation scheme will involve getting large numbers of Republicans personally involved into the mess. Maybe there's no risk of deportation (especially if they're white). But its still a huge hassle, and having legions of police and/or military going door-to-door looking for illegal anything makes anyone uncomfortable (even if they're "only" hiding guns and porn in their basement).
I'd expect most Republicans to demand to see the warrants and close their doors until proper documents are shown. Which then provides Undocumented the cover they need (ie: now the Undocumented can do the same thing: just ask for a warrant and close the door otherwise).
Of course they aren't but that's what I'm saying. If people thought this was going to be quick, easy, and precise they need to learn that isn't how it works. I say good luck to them but don't ask for my help when the lesson turns out to be painful.
I mean if this is a real thing (and I have no idea if its as bad as we have seen all over), but I am sure there will be tip lines and you could tell them hey that guy with all the trump flags has been bringing in brown people at night. I think they are hiding them from the roundups. Might do something.... then again it might not.
So you're saying its like Swatting but even better?
Cool. Lets see how that plays out.
I mean they are using it on americans and people that are 'the huddle masses'. So in the idea of you dont talk about my backyard unless yours is clean, I could see this as fair play. But you are right, it is inhumane, and stupid that its not only being talked about but used in mass.
The world doesn’t care man. The world doesn’t even care about genocide. why do you think the world would give a shit about mass deportation?