894
Bernie Sanders doubles down that people are ‘angry’ with Dems after Pelosi said she didn’t ‘respect’ his remarks
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2024
894 points (98.2% liked)
politics
19096 readers
3535 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The Republicans are doing zero for the working class other than lying to them and giving their money yo billionaires.
Dems supported unions where Trump impugned them
Dems forgave student loans, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems pushed to end noncompetes for the average worker, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems passed the CHIPS act to bring good paying jobs to multiple communities
Dems passed an infrastructure bill while Trump had 100 infrastructure weeks that accomplished nothing
Trump said he'd fire workers rather than pay them overtime
Harris promised to investigate price gouging, Trump is supported by the oligarchy
Etc, etc
Which indicates that policy is secondary to messaging. On every substantive policy metric, Democrats are better than Republicans. People even say they prefer Democratic policies over Republicans' when polled, by wide margins. So it must be the messenger and the way the message is being conveyed that is losing elections. That's not to say that policies don't matter, they absolutely do, but if you've got great policies and shit messaging, then you're not going to win voters over, no matter how much better you are.
The democrats don't try to appeal to those without higher education. Republicans are great at presenting information in easy to digest bites.
Nonsense. They try nonstop to appeal to Republicans.
You're like the ultimate contrarian in every comment. It's kinda weird. I don't get it. What's your endgame?
I suppose it looks that way when you already get everything you want from the party.
I forgot which comedian did this bit during their standup but their point was that progressives/liberals/leftists suck at messaging or sloganeering. Their goals are noble but there are no catchy slogans to go with it.
Just think about it. "They're killing the babies!" is way more catchy and effective than "Access to abortion should be available to everyone. Even if you want to have a child, some complications or health issues may require you to abort the pregnancy as early as you can." Yeah that's not reaching everyone, is it? And you can't scream it like "They're killing the babies!"
And that's just an example of policy that was chosen by few states', which they also voted for GOP, giving them power to ban abortion on federal level. (In case you are wondering which states: Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Nevada)
If you can't communicate how you can give the people what they want, how do you even counter "Democrats hate America!" or stuff like that?
My body, my choice has been the message since forever.
And that works great as a protest slogan where people are already aware of how it works. But not a great slogan when you want to reach to people who are ignorant about what it entails.
All of those things you posted sound good, but if you look at the details and execution, it's either a pathetically laughable attempt or something they should have done 3 years ago.
Prosecute companies for wage theft.
Start splitting up monopolies at the beginning of your presidency or vice presidency, not at the end.
Don't destroy the train union and then pretend that you're pro-union because you went to one picket line. And as I recall, it was Joe who went.
When you push for non-competes or you push for student loan forgiveness, and the Republicans find legal ways to stop your efforts, find other legal ways to continue your efforts. If you just shrug your shoulders and say we tried, but we couldn't make your lives better, of course nobody is going to think that you meant a word you said.
The Democrat said 4 years to deliver, or at least to show that they tried very hard to deliver, and they chose to do neither of those. Which is sad.
And if Harris is telling us what she wants to do in the future, we're immediately going to ask why she and Joe didn't already do it in the past. When we don't get an answer, we just shrug our shoulders. It's more of the same from Washington politicians. Democrats in Washington certainly represent somebody, but that somebody isn't you and me.
I'm very much on the "Dems fucked this up train" but you're getting really close to this, which is also true. Because maybe the answer there is "You saw him up on that debate stage right? Or "You know I'm VP, not P right now, right?"
Joe and the train crash is real union support. Please.
Uh... We all know Trump is bad you're not proving anything here. However, policies aside, Harris's campaign sucked ass. If you don't understand or refuse to accept that then there's no conversation to be had here.
Edit: I was responding to an argument that doesn't exist nvm.
Are you trying to make a point? Because you're not saying anything
I'm not defending Harris' overall campaign, but I am taking some issue with Bernie claiming that the Democrats have abandoned working class voters.
I like Bernie, and he makes some good points about the lack of any bill put forth to raise the minimum wage. But I think his overall characterization is quite a bit off base, especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing
I'll listen to any counterpoint with an open mind but you have to make one
Oh yeah my bad there. I've seen enough "there was no problem with Harris's campaign" takes that I kinda default to that.
To respond to the actual point you made, let's first forget about any comparisons to Republicans because that's just not the point here. After that I wanna establish that Biden's administration is, by all means, an exception. He ran on an explicitly left-wing platform that Bernie had a role in creating, and despite still being a corporate democrat did things that actually helped the working class. Compared to his campaign Harris ran on "nothing will fundamentally change" and straight up said she didn't have anything in mind that she'd do differently from Biden regarding the economy. That rejection of change, which shaped her campaign as a whole (the economy is just the most egregious example), is abandoning a working class who desperately needs change. Add in how Harris explicitly tried to court Republicans and we have reason to believe the DNC intended to shift to the right rather than the left, again abandoning the working class.
All fair points. My intended point was that take some exception to Bernie's blanket statement that the Dems abandoned the working class voters. Though I agree they haven't focused enough there, nor message it correctly.
Biden definititely ran and led on a more progressively left platform after Bernie and AOC collaborated with them in 2020. I think it's clear Harris was going to continue that, but I don't think it was properly messaged
I almost feel like someone maybe confused comment threads because it's not directly related to your main comment.
Nothing? They'll be taking away what working class has now. That's worse than offering nothing.