this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2024
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So at the risk of being down voted to hell..
What exactly is it that she's done? I've mostly lived under a rock on this one, but from the little I heard about it, her point is basically "trans women look like women but are biologically speaking still male, as their genetics hasn't changed. They can't have babies, for example". Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
In any case, if I'm right about her point then is that really anti trans? That isn't being against trans, it's stating a biological fact.
I'm guessing there must be much more than that for people to be so pissed with her
https://www.vox.com/culture/23622610/jk-rowling-transphobic-statements-timeline-history-controversy
It's ugly and has been going on for a long time now.
Fuck.
What do you mean 2018 was a long time ago now? Wasn't it just yesterday?
Here's a decent recent-ish review. She's said worse than your example, and understand that the example you gave is already kind of a crappy opinion/statement of understanding. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/jk-rowling-trans-twitter-timeline-b2326256.html
Of late, she's recently been in the news for claiming an Algerian Woman's Boxer (Imane Khelif) who won Gold at the Olympics this year was a man, despite her being a cis woman. Most of her claim comes from Imane's build and looks being more masculine and some dubious reports from a discredited Russian boxing council. Her comments (plus Elon Musk having the same opinion) lead to Imane getting harassed and forced the IOC to have to intervene and confirm that she's allowed to compete and that the claims are baseless. Imane is suing them in France over it.
Sorry, the example I gave is not an opinion, that is just plain biology. I have nothing against trans people, don't care, everyone can live their own lives and find happiness. If transitioning makes you happy, then by all means, go.
However, it is a cosmetic change, your genes do not change. You don't M2F and suddenly start menstruation because you don't have the plumbing and right now that's not something any doctor can fix. Who knows, maybe 20 years down the line we can make those changes at the genetic level and install plumbing and all, awesome, then you'll M2F for real and be an actual woman. Until then, though, you're trans, not a woman. Same goes for F2M trans, afaik you don't get a working penis because you lack the required plumbing for that.
I'm not trying to be a dick, not at all, it's just reality of our current abilities in the medical field. It also doesn't make any trans person less, we're all the same, we're all flawed humans with good, normal and bad parts. Being trans is neither good nor bad, it's just part of your life
Nobody is claiming otherwise, but "womanhood" itself is not defined by genes alone. Reiterating those points isn't countering any real argument, it's just signaling bigotry. "I accept trans women even though they aren't real women" is not the accepting statement you pretend it is. Jkr started with the exact same rhetoric, and now she's calling an Olympian who was born and raised female a man. But by all means, double down because you feel you're technically correct and see who comes to your defense.
That is the point though, a lot of people ARE claiming otherwise, and if you say what I just said, people respond like you just did.
I didn't say that to insult or make anyone feel any less, I said it just to state a simple fact that quite a few people deny for... Reasons? When hearing facts become bigotry for you, you're on the wrong side of the argument, we're living in a real world. I'm not saying that these facts make trans people any less, you do.
Citation needed.
Yeah I know facts don't care about my feelings, but it's not the facts, it's what you imply when you say them. Nobody saying 13/50 does so in an attempt to address social inequity, they say it to dogwhistle racism.
Fooled me.
Yeah that's the typical reaction to this but tell me honestly, is anything I said wrong, a lie, twisted truth or anything like that?
There is nothing wrong with being trans but for some reason when anyot states a very simple basic biological fact, you people go nuts. "Trans blood is red", does that statement make me transphobic or a dick too?
This "we can't deal with simple facts" behavior is what turns a lot of people away from supporting LGBTQ+ you got all my support, hell, I'm in one of those letter myself, but I also live in the real world where facts matter.
Please stop being weird. Focusing on this biology and genitalia garbage is weird and transphobic, and completely unwarranted and uncalled for. What you said was rude. I didn't even call you a transphobe.
I don't get what you being LGBTQ+ or making these insensitive equating statements that nobody asked for is meant to accomplish aside from harassing me further and trying to "other" trans people.
I don't focus on anyone's biology unless it's in a comment thread where it's kind of the point.
I'm only saying that stating basic facts isn't thans phobic. If I say that an African American man has a darker skin color than a white man, that is a fact too. YOU are the one taking offence to thst, acting as if it's a problem, I don't. I don't give a shit about skin color, or genitalia, or what people do with their genitalia. Live and let live. It's just that in this thread we're talking about this subject, and I just mentioned it because in these discussions a lot of people (you included) go nuts of anyone brings up actual facts, and that is a problem.
Trans people are awesome, just like non trans people. They're no different from your or I except they like to be the opposite gender and they work hard to get that done and feel better about themselves. Good, awesome, I wish you the best. Just don't claim you now suddenly start menstruating, as I've seen more than once because then when anyone goes "eeeehhhh, well..." people like you get angry saying we need to keep our facts to ourselves.
You seem very laser-focused and sure of your facts about trans women. As a trans woman, your argument is that I can't... menstruate with a biological vagina? I guess that means postmenopausal women aren't women or something? I fail to see your point. Also, I don't understand what black people have to do with this?
I'm not here to educate you further. You've made wild claims about my views and have only doubled down since catching a ban for your comments. You're like "but I have a black friend" but with trans women like me.
You asked what JK did that was wrong, we told you, and you went off the deep end about genetics and genitalia. All because you gave an insensitive example that you took as a personal critique when I called it out.
It's not a basic biological fact, because biology isn't that basic. It gets really complicated, and there's new research happening all the time, including about trans people.
For instance, did you know there are multiple biological differences between a trans woman and a cis man? Certain brain structures in a trans woman more closely resemble cis women than cis men, and that's even before any kind of transition.
Also, trans women will often have surgery and take HRT to have the same hormones as a cis woman in order to change secondary sex characteristics. Really, one of the few biological changes we can't make is to chromosomes themselves.
And even ignoring all that, being trans often results in gender dysphoria, which is a mental condition. Imagine someone says they have bipolar disorder, and your response being "yeah, and you'll always have bipolar disorder. That's just a fact, get over it."
I don't think that's exactly what you're doing, but there's a way to talk about the realities of being trans that also shows you are trying to be supportive and not dismissing someone's struggle with their identity. And that's why JK Rowling gets hate, because she tends to be on the dismissive, terf-y, 'you aren't real women and never will be, get over it' side
The problem is that these "facts" you're talking about aren't in dispute, yet people like you and Rowling are always the first to bring up genitalia. It's creepy and rude.
MtFs don't claim they menstruate or get pregnant, and FtMs don't claim to produce semen...yet y'all never fail to insist that we do. So when you insist on making a counter-argument to an argument we're not making, it comes across as if you do have an issue with us but can't find a valid place to point those feelings. That's why everyone is calling you a dick.
Yes. There is no suggestion of Khelif being a M2F trans athlete.
I never said that
You asked to be corrected so I am doing so.
You said
JK Rowling's point is incorrect when directed towards Imane Khelif because the labels Trans or M2F have never applied to her.