this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
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Showerthoughts

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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. A showerthought should offer a unique perspective on an ordinary part of life.

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[–] EatYouWell 53 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, that's not what Stockholm Syndrome is.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Correct. Also, fun fact: the actual origin of Stockholm Syndrome was due to the fact that the hostages were afraid of police incompetence and sided with the terrorists from fear of being killed by over aggressive poorly trained police. Source

[–] [email protected] 39 points 11 months ago

They also successfully worked to negotiate with the hostage takers when the police didn't.

After they negotiated their own release they criticised the police in the media, and the police realised that since the hostage leading all of this was a woman, they could just employ a standard abuser's tactic and call her crazy. Apparently it worked.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Mind sharing some link that actually shows a book? Maybe its just google not liking adblockers or something

[–] scarabic 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

I was thinking about a character in a TV show. He’s a Christian monk who is captured by Viking raiders and kept as a slave. He’s still quite young though. And while he has no freedom, he isn’t whipped or treated like an animal, he just lives as a very low status person. Eventually, after years, he starts wanting to improve his status with the tribe around him. Maybe he’s tired of being at the bottom. Maybe he’s just starving for some kind of human connection. When they come under threat, he asks to join the Viking fighting force. This seems like pretty clear Stockholm Syndrome to me - fighting for the people who enslaved you.

But is it really that different from waking up as a child in a certain culture and over time, absorbing its ways, and feeling the desire to grow your status in that society? How many people absorb their home culture’s ways because they think about them and deem them best? It’s a process of absorption.

So yes, while there’s always a little sass and irony in showerthoughts, I think there’s a connection here with pondering. You didn’t elaborate on your “yeah no” comment at all. Perhaps now you will?

[–] EatYouWell 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes, siding with your captors is different from being raised in a culture.

[–] scarabic 2 points 11 months ago (10 children)

You’re really big on bald assertions.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I remember when I was 14 and I had everything figured out

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Yay Vikings is a great show

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

This is one of the ways that I know none of the religions claiming to be the "truth" are true.

99.99% of the time, your religion is based on who your parents are and where you were born, not what is actually true.

[–] Sanyanov 3 points 11 months ago

I've always been stifled by people getting born into one of religions and suddenly thinking it is the true one.

Like, how likely it is for you to be born straight into the correct religion when the world is full or heresy?

How do you differ for all those believing, with same dedication, in something else?

[–] [email protected] 29 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Not in my case, I think. Very stereotypical conservative, religious parents. Have rejected many of their bigoted values, kept the work ethic, tried to carry empathy to it's logical conclusion rather than stopping when they thought it was hard. I've changed religions. I think my country's military policy is abhorrent.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

That's exactly what a person with Stockholm syndrome would say!....... /s

[–] scarabic 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

“But not me!”

—everyone

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (7 children)

You wrote "all". Seems a lot of people disagree with "all".

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[–] z00s 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But how do you feel about universal healthcare?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That it's a wonderful thing and to let people suffer because of profit is evil.

[–] z00s 3 points 11 months ago

Good on you

[–] Candelestine 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean, yea. The whole idea is that you want to survive in whatever environment you were born into, whether that's North Sentinel Island or the Siberian taiga or downtown Mexico City. So, the homo sapiens operating system is pretty flexible, you can put whatever you want on it. This food, that food, this music, that music, it's all subjective. You just calibrated to your environment.

Started in the womb, your moms amniotic fluid can change flavors depending on what mom ate, which has some influence on a baby's preferences.

The fact that our environments vary so much, and there's a lot of rng in general, gives us a lot of the diversity we're so fond of. None of it stays static either, it's all flowing and changing over time, so, the flexible operating system really is necessary. No fucking clue what a baby is gonna be asked to do in 30 years, might be anything from a soldier to a doctor. Well, doctor might take a few more years...

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Pssh, not me. I was born into a homophobic redneck culture and I hated it. I now consider myself an LGBTQ+ ally and computer nerd.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Same. I grew up in rural Ohio (USA) going to churches talking about the "synagogues of satan", people at school saying "that's Jewish" for something lame, lots of words I won't repeat here about a number of ethnic and sexual minorities, etc.

It all basically never sat well with me. I moved out when my mom remarried which was a bit before my senior year of high school. Bigger city, bigger school, more diversity, etc. quickly proved what I had long felt: humans are humans and neither their religion nor ethnicity nor gender identity changed that. This would have been in the late '90s.

I now live on the other side of the world from that place (Japan, of course, having its own issues with things like gender and racism, but that's (a) mostly the older generations and (b) a story for another time). Before I quit facebook years ago, I did catch up with a couple of people. Most of them did not change, but many of the bad ones got worse (this would have been around 2016) and emboldened by far-right groups growing in popularity. Living as a minority in another country also taught me a lot of about privilege and accidental racism.

[–] Zippy 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So you agree with it but escaped it?

Then again maybe you are subject to some other form of Stockholm syndrome?

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

It’s even more fucky when you start to consider if the ideals, values, and beliefs you hold are actually ones you yourself have determined, or if you’ve just chosen those because it’s been passed onto you either by culture, society, or your environment.

Take the old adage “treat others how you would want to be treated” - is that something you believe because you’ve just been told that for so long? Or is that something you intrinsically believe in regardless of what others have said? It’s only an example, and I’m not honestly even sure if it conveys that idea 100%, but shit like that keeps me up man lol.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Take the old adage “treat others how you would want to be treated” - is that something you believe because you’ve just been told that for so long? Or is that something you intrinsically believe in regardless of what others have said?

For what it's worth, this is essentially the "tit-for-tat" strategy from game theory, and you can rigorously prove it to be a superior cooperative strategy in many situations. Essentially, cooperation with others enables greater community success than everyone going alone, but trusting others always exposes you to selfish people that will take advantage of you. The optimal strategy is to cooperate by default, but if someone reveals themselves to be untrustworthy, stop cooperating and ideally work with others to punish them.

You actually see this bear out in nature in other animals as well. Vampire bats will share blood with other vampire bats that didn't successfully feed, but they also keep track of individual contributions, and if they identify that a bat is freeloading, they'll stop feeding it. By default, they cooperate to help each other, but if a selfish actor is identified, they stop helping it.

In the abstract, so long as most actors aren't selfish and the cost of being betrayed isn't too high, tit-for-tat is the optimal strategy.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (37 children)

Basically what I think about gun support. It's statistically awful to be around guns or be around those with guns. But we still have them and some of us fight for them because they feel safer when they're really, really not.

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[–] Skullgrid 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No.

Signed, a serial immigrant

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

You guys are getting a culture?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

i like the water-puddle analogy.

were just water filling whatever sized and shaped hole in which we are dumped.

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[–] LavaPlanet 2 points 11 months ago

Same has been said regarding the way we feel towards parents. I dunno tho. I think I Kindly disagree with both sentiments.

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