this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] ziggurism 40 points 10 months ago (4 children)
[–] Entropius 23 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Acceleration and Velocity are vectors. Changes in a velocity vector are an acceleration. Therefore when photons change direction technically it’s a form of acceleration.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I thought photons are always moving in straight lines from their perspective, and it's space that's bent. Unless it's through a medium, then they just get absorbed and re-emitted, sort of.

[–] Entropius 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Space bending is a general relativity thing, which isn’t really related much to how mirrors work.

Regarding the medium bit, photons being absorbed and remitted can’t explain how light moves slower in glass. This is just an extremely popular myth. Photons are only absorbed by atoms at very specific frequencies. Also, the entire reason glass is transparent to begin with is that it’s not absorbing the photons (requires too much energy to bump the electron’s energy level so the photon isn’t absorbed and it keeps on trucking). Also photon absorption and remission is stochastic so there’s no way to control the direction it happens in or how quickly it happens. Random directions of remitted light would make glass translucent, not transparent. So for a few reasons, that’s not how it works.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

They do at 0m/s^2.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] ook_the_librarian 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Since photons are indistinguishable, it's hard to say too much concretely, but it some sense a diffracted photon is different photon. In order for a photon to interact with say, a diffraction grating, the interaction is done with "virtual photons".

So for a photon to change course, aka accelerate, it does it by absorbing a virtual photon and emitting another. Whether that is the "same photon" after the interaction is kinda more philosophy than physics, at least to me.

Feynman diagrams are surprisingly accessible for how much information they contain. It's one way to think about photon (and other particle) reactions.

[–] ziggurism 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There is no tree level photon-photon interaction. Photons scatter off electrons (or any other charged particle), not off neutral photons.

[–] ook_the_librarian 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Are you claiming this is done without a force carrier? If you are working outside the standard model, I guess that's fine, but I don't want to spend time arguing with you.

[–] ziggurism 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

The electromagnetic field does have a force carrier. It is the photon.

The photon mediates the force between electrically charged particles. It cannot mediate any reaction between two neutral photons.

[–] ook_the_librarian 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (7 children)

Ah, I see. Sorry for the snark. I was thinking more in line with the Compton effect, and thought you were talking about something like that too. (Even though it's clear that you were explicitly not. I thought you were denying photon-virtual photon interaction because I was talking about it in a funny way.)

I would still say it's still philosophical whether photons experience acceleration, but I concede that photon-photon interaction is not done by virtual photon exchange.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Not with that attitude.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (23 children)

Does a photon actually accelerate? Sure seems like it always goes at light speed through whatever medium from its creation.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

well, if it get reflected and change direction it going to be at light speed, so it can be interpreted (probably incorrectly lol) that it "accelerated instantly to the other direction after the reflection"?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

This is an interesting question. Instant acceleration is mathematically implausible, but I don't know if there's a better physical interpretation for what happens to a bouncing photon. I'm guessing this is one of those "less particle, more wave" situations where the instantaneous velocity of the photon is undefined.

According to some random internet sources, reflection is the not-quite-instantaneous process of the photon being absorbed and then emitted by the electrons in the mirror.

[–] Entropius 7 points 10 months ago

As a rule, it’s probably best to avoid “random” internet sources on matters of how light works because there’s so much confidently parroted misinformation out there. For example, this is completely wrong: https://youtu.be/FAivtXJOsiI See here for correct answers to that issue: https://youtu.be/CiHN0ZWE5bk

For how mirrors work see this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-physical-proc/ https://youtu.be/rYLzxcU6ROM

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There's a hard rule about quantum physics. It goes: "it's all fun and games until you're at the Quantum level, then everything is all fucked up"

According to what we know, electrons don't "move between" energy states on an electron, they're just in one one moment and another the next. That's so disconnected from reality we perceive it still breaks my brain.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This is acceleration with no mass and no resistance to medium.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Photons are born and die at c. They experience no time and have no frame of reference.

[–] hansl 3 points 10 months ago

The loneliest of experience.

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[–] VonCesaw 18 points 10 months ago (2 children)

PHOTONS HAVE MASS

ANYONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE THEY HAVE MASS IS A COWARD

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

But every time i put it on a scale, it just flys away. GIVE ME PROOF. I have a kitchen scale to offer.

[–] VonCesaw 2 points 10 months ago

MEASURE FASTER

IT MOVES REAL QUICK

[–] Zehzin 2 points 10 months ago

Photons can have little a mass, as a treat.

[–] Squorlple 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Who is the dude on the right?

[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] Squorlple 11 points 10 months ago

Ah, I get the joke now. Classic

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Because you're so light

[–] SzethFriendOfNimi 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Without mass how could you do anything else?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] SzethFriendOfNimi 6 points 10 months ago

I see you there

[–] satans_crackpipe 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Without mass you have to occupy parts of time and possibly gravity.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

39 years old... Can confirm that time is perceptibly accelerating

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