Mint.
You're working to his requirements, not yours.
this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
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Fedora is not for beginners.
Mint is.
I could go into more detail, but I'll leave it there.
Mint has very nice tooling but its a weird Ubuntu derivate. One day a specific software doesnt install, or you have an XOrg problem that will never be fixed, or standard updates simply break something, and then...
Mint is nice and easy to get going, but its outdated a lot, and uses a Distro model that I dont like to install on random laptops that are never updated.
So you're a power user? Case in point, you'd be better for Fedora.
Also my second distro was mint, after 3+ years of the old hdd's non-use, I pulled it out last year when my install of some OS broke, updated it to zero issues (I was curious), used the software for a bit, all was good.
3 years without an update to zero issues.
Haven't seen any issue with Mint updates yet like I've fought in Fedora
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From your post:
laptop he uses for university. He’s not a tinkerer and wants something that just works.
Mint:
Linux Mint is known for being very user-friendly and stable. Also easy to get help online.
Fedora:
have to install media codecs via terminal
university wifi eduroam doesn’t work on Fedora
less help on the web for Fedora than Mint.
Unless you're sure that screen stuttering is going to be a major annoyance, you know what I am going to suggest.
Fair enough.
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Mint is like 99% plug and play on most laptops, so I'd recommend they go that route.
I recommend Mint.
Chances are your friend's secondary laptop doesn't have extra resources for Gnome to run smoothly. Sad thing is nowadays Gnome is very heavy and bloated.
Also, he may try both distros live-usb. Maybe he don't care about Mint looking outdated. But if he does, you may try Fedora live-usb and check if university wifi works properly.
It's his laptop after all, so I believe your appreciations on the beauty of desktop environments are secondary.
Good ideas, I will consider that.
It's his laptop after all, so I believe your appreciations on the beauty of desktop environments are secondary.
You are right. I was thinking that the Fedora workflow might give him some Linux-exclusive benefits over Windows so he might consider switching his main laptop too. Mint is rather a drop-in replacement for Windows so the advantages of Linux are not very visible/important for a newcomer. At least compared to a DE like GNOME.
Mint doesn’t have to look outdated if you put a little work into it. Check out this fellow’s rice in unixporn: https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/17dwneg/cinnamon_available_as_installable_iso/
No questions it's mint, it runs and looks very good.
In general I would recommend any Debian derivate for beginners that just don't care about how their computer is operating. So if this is really just a question regarding eight Fedora or Linux Mint then I would say Linux Mint because it's a Debian derivative.
That's simply because chances are high stat you will at least find a Deb package for any proprietary software you might want to use. Making it "easier" for the user.
If you install the system for your friend you're free to change the Desctop environment to everything you want.
That’s simply because chances are high stat you will at least find a Deb package for any proprietary software you might want to use. Making it “easier” for the user.
Fedora ships unfiltered Flathub outof the box since quite some time. If easy access to proprietary software is a deciding factor, Fedora is among the easiest options.
Okay, but Mint has Flathub and the deb ecosystem.
It's just straight-up better supported
Mint has Flathub and the deb ecosystem.
Random debs don't magically work on all Debian derivatives. Simply getting debs from somewhere is just asking for problems.
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You would get less hassle with Mint. One thing that came to mind is the codec.
As a fedoraman myself, I think Pop!_OS is a great option.
But are you doing this because your friend wants linux or because you want it? It's okay to recommend it but don't push it if they don't need it.
I’d say Mint.
Mint is planning to add experimental support for Wayland this winter, so he’s probably only 1-2 years away from full Wayland support in the DE.
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Keep in mind "it just works" also includes the windows like workflow.
Begin small, end big. That works for everything when learning something new. So, with that said, go for Linux Mint Cinnamon.
I begun my Linux journey with elementary OS which is more for macOS users. I was a Windows user so I switched to Linux Mint Cinnamon. After a few years of exploring and learning, I am now using EndeavourOS.
I installed Mint on someone's old laptop at my Uni's lab (it's mostly for the field of environment and agriculture so nobody is an IT expert here), he didn't have any complaints and is actually falling down the Linux rabbit-hole, while others are considering switching to Linux too after seeing how it resurrected 2 old basically-defunct laptops.
I'd go with that, it is a trusty and reliable distro for newbies. I even know some greybeards that use it.
Then again as others pointed out he can try both from live USB. The important part is that you explain a distro can have everything another distro has with the right know-how and some patience, as well as how things work on Linux (for example: imstall programs using the package manager whenever possible). But again he isn't a tinkerer so stock Mint will work just fine with him.
Thanks for your input.
I love Fedora but definitely Mint for a normie. Even then I question if you should install Linux at all since reliably being able to do what you need to do is priority one, especially for a student, and if he may be blocked in his work as a result I don't think it's a great idea.
I can’t really give a super useful opinion given that I haven’t really touched fedora, but I’ve been using mint for school for almost a year, highly recommend
Maybe stock Ubuntu?
It's pretty new. Has wayland and pipewire. You can just enable a checkmark in the installer to install codecs. Uses Gnome, so a non-Windows like workflow. Pretty sure Eduroam would work there, as many schools use Ubuntu by default.
I haven't tried Ubuntu yet myself, but generally I'm turned off by some decisions Canonical makes, especially the whole Snap thing adding complexity, slow app startup and proprietary store. Not very trustworthy.
But you are right, Ubuntu is the most popular and things like eduroam will likely work.
generally I’m turned off by some decisions Canonical makes
Those decision will trickle down to Ubuntu remixes like Mint eventually. Canonical's plan is to replace as much as technically possible with Snaps. They just barely delayed shipping CUPS itself as Snap but it will come, so even a basic task like printing will rely on Snap. I don't see Mint having manpower to package everything on their own, even if it's "just" about porting Debian packages. Might just as well use LMDE right now.
that's the whole reasoning behind having LMDE. seems a little redundant today; but within a release or two mint may very well be only based on debian itself, with the way canonical is steering ubuntu.
within a release or two mint may very well be only based on debian itself, with the way canonical is steering ubuntu.
I expect Canonical going hard in the Snap direction leading up to 26.04. They are desperate given the fact that Flathub got a huge popularity boost thanks to SteamOS. I don't think Ubuntu remixes will come out unscathed.
LMDE is the future of Mint, hopefully with a Flatpak-first approach.
Go with Debian, install software using the GNOME Software GUI, it can be configured to use flatpak so you'll get the latest software without the snap overhead on a very stable base system.
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Do mint, if you really wanna do fedora try Nobara
At least at UVA, eduroam on fedora is possible, you might be able to adapt these instructions to your university if you end up on fedora http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/compfac/faq/linux-eduroam.html
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However, in my opinion Mint seems rather outdated
That's because Cinnamon is actually a fork of an ancient Gnome release that has since gotten much fewer enhancements compared to Gnome (and Plasma).
I’d have to install media codecs via terminal first which suggests that Fedora is for experienced users.
That is factually wrong: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/38/ChangeSet#Unfiltered_Flathub
Also university wifi eduroam doesn’t work on Fedora for me because legacy TLS connection is not supported in Fedora (at least I couldn’t get it to work).
When the WiFi relies on insecure encryption, the problem will only be delayed on Mint because Mint's underlying Ubuntu core is just older. Once a newer security policy comes to Mint, it will have exactly the same problem. The actual solution is for you university to update the WiFi encryption. In the meantime, according to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/StrongCryptoSettings2#Upgrade/compatibility_impact the security defaults of Fedora can be rolled back to an earlier level quite easily.
That’s because Cinnamon is actually a fork of an ancient Gnome release
mate is what originally spawned from gnome 2. while cinnamon was built from gnome 3, it has been completely separated from it for a decade.
both are under active development, run current applications, and offer what would be described as a more 'traditional' desktop environment (compared to gnome shell or ubuntu's unity). they're both lighter-weight then gnome, with mate being a bit leaner than cinnamon.
mint would be my suggestion for op, and any of the default mint desktops, including their other option--xfce, would be suitable for op's use case.
while cinnamon was built from gnome 3, it has been completely separated from it for a decade.
both are under active development
I followed Cinnamon's git closely for years. The commit "Renamed files to Cinnamon" was the last commit to the majority of files over years, despite the fact that Cinnamon had several formal releases in that time. It took literal years for its development to actually get off the ground and not just get some light touches in JavaScript files. The slow start reverberates until this day as you can see with its slow Wayland adoption and OP's "Mint seems rather outdated" comment. IMO Cinnamon isn't even the best choice for people who want a Windows7-like workflow. Gnome with Dash to Panel achieves the same with less technological legacy.
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6 in one, half a dozen the other. Both are good.
ZorinOS? I saw no talk of it here and I haven't personally used it in a couple of years. It uses gnome and can be set to mimic the look of windows, mac, or just stock gnome. It looks super clean, modern and pro. It's easy to use and based on ubuntu. It was a just works distro for me.
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