this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
589 points (96.5% liked)

politics

19238 readers
2670 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Over the last few days as most of the media was blathering on about Joe Biden's "bad week," Donald Trump was stepping up his campaign and appearing at various venues saying things and behaving in ways that should have made journalists' ears perk up, wondering if he's lost more than a step. He was wildly dishonest and incredibly self-destructive — even for him.

It started with an interview with Megyn Kelly for her Sirius XM show last Thursday, the first since shortly after Trump crudely insulted her back in 2015 during the first presidential primary debate. Trump seemed to expect a friendly, Fox-like, interview and she gave him plenty of softballs and expressed her agreement with much of his nonsense. But she did ask some probing questions about his legal troubles and once again he more or less confessed to his crimes. He must have said the words "Presidential Records Act" a dozen times, reiterating over and over that he had every right to take any document he chose. And he slipped up continuously, providing the prosecution plenty of fodder:

When the special prosecutor presents this case to the jury they will be told exactly what is supposed to happen with classified documents and they will understand how utterly ridiculous it would be for a president to secretly declassify documents and not tell anyone that they've been declassified.

Over the weekend he spoke at the Christian right "Pray, Vote, Stand" summit in Washington and mocked President Biden mercilessly over his alleged mental unfitness and then said this:

The spooky background music and his bizarre delivery made that downright chilling. He also said:

Any normal person would have just corrected himself for misspeaking but he can never admit he did anything wrong so instead he twisted himself into a verbal pretzel that had it been delivered by Joe Biden would have resulted in a national call to check him into a nursing home immediately.

He later appeared at the Concerned Women for America conference and was a little bit sharper but repeated nonsense such as his silly claim that you need ID to buy a loaf of bread, another sign that he simply cannot retain information. He has certainly heard by now that this is silly and could easily substitute something like "you have to have ID to travel on an airplane" to make his point but he can't do that. Once he gets something like "low flow showers" or "windmills cause cancer" in his head there's no getting it out. That's not normal.

The final segment of his week-end odyssey was the highly anticipated interview on "Meet the Press" which was filmed earlier in the week. To say it was infuriating would be an understatement. As he always does, he ran circles around the show's new host, Kristen Welker, and basically made a mockery of American democracy by demonstrating that an incoherent con artist is going to be the Republican nominee for president — again.

For every viewer who saw that he was completely unfit to be president there is another who got lost in the overwhelming rush of words, or what's known to rhetoricians as "the Gish Gallop," a tactic designed to "defeat one's opponent by burying them in a torrent of incorrect, irrelevant, or idiotic arguments."

And he once again showed he is completely oblivious to the legal damage he is doing to himself every time he agrees to answer questions about his cases. Here he confesses that he only listened to lawyers who told him what his own "instincts" told him was true. When pressed he says that the decision about whether the election was rigged was his alone, although he dances away from Welker's question about whether he was "calling the shots."

Watching these events is intensely frustrating and I think it's even more difficult to watch now than before. Trump is no longer a first-time candidate taking the political press by surprise. Neither is he the president whose office confers such immense power that even a dolt like Trump is automatically given more deference than he deserves. Today he is just another candidate for president and he doesn't deserve to be treated with any more respect than any of the others. In fact, he deserves less since he is a criminal defendant in four different cases and was recently found liable for sexual assault to the tune of $5 million.

The man sat in all the interviews and appearances and made it crystal clear that he believes he is above the law. In fact, with his endless blathering about how he can do whatever he wants with classified documents, he makes it clear that he believes he is the law. And yet, the befuddled yet eager media is treating Donald Trump with the same consideration they always did, before they knew how disordered and his mind was and what a danger he is to American democracy and the rule of law.

I had thought after the widely criticized CNN Trump town hall everyone understood that you simply cannot allow Trump to ramble incoherently to cover for his unwillingness to answer the questions. They have to find another way to cover him. And yet there he was this weekend on "Meet The Press" doing exactly that. And in spite of the interview being pre-taped, they aired it as if it was live and only put a fact-check on their website after the fact. For every viewer who saw that he was completely unfit to be president there is another who got lost in the overwhelming rush of words, or what's known to rhetoricians as "the Gish Gallop," a tactic designed to "defeat one's opponent by burying them in a torrent of incorrect, irrelevant, or idiotic arguments." That's what Trump does, however unconsciously, and the media aids and abets him by treating him as if he's just another politician.

The Guardian's Margaret Sullivan wrote about this problem last week:

Trump is covered mostly as an entertaining sideshow – his mugshot! His latest insults! – not a perilous threat to democracy, despite four indictments and 91 charges against him, and despite his own clear statements that his re-election would bring extreme anti-democratic results; he would replace public servants with the cronies who'll do his bidding. "We will look back on this and wish more people had understood that Biden is our bulwark of democratic freedoms and the alternative is worse than most Americans can imagine," commented Ruth Ben-Ghiat, author of Strongmen, and an expert in authoritarian regimes.

She says the solution for journalists is simpler than we think:

Remember at all times what our core mission is: to communicate truthfully, keeping top of mind that we have a public service mission to inform the electorate and hold powerful people to account. If that's our north star, as it should be, every editorial judgment will reflect that. Headlines will include context, not just deliver political messaging. Overall politics coverage will reflect "not the odds, but the stakes", as NYU's Jay Rosen elegantly put it. Lies and liars won't get a platform and a megaphone.

I wish I had more confidence that this would happen. At this point, I think we just have to fervently hope that there are enough people in this country who can see through that cacophony of BS and vote as if their future depends upon him never holding office again — because it does.

all 33 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] morphballganon 64 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Missing a couple of quotes there, after 4th and 5th paragraphs

[–] mo_ztt 74 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I had to start up Google Chrome to see it. Here, you can benefit from my sacrifice:

Over the weekend he spoke at the Christian right "Pray, Vote, Stand" summit in Washington and mocked President Biden mercilessly over his alleged mental unfitness and then said this:

"We have a man who is totally corrupt and the worst president in the history of our country, who is cognitively impaired, in no condition to lead, and is now in charge of dealing with Rush-sha. And possible nuclear war. Just think of it. We would be... in World War 2, very quickly, if we're going to relying on this man, and far more devastating than any war, there will never be a war, if that happens, there will never be a war like this. It will... obliterate everything... there is. Every body. It will obliterate every country."

The spooky background music and his bizarre delivery made that downright chilling.

There is, in fact, slow piano and violin music overlaid, like the ending to an apocalyptic movie where everything is still.

He also said:

"As you know, crooked Joe Biden and the radical left thugs have weaponized law enforcement to arrest their leading political opponent, and leading by a lot, including Obam-- ep--- w-- I'll tell you what, you take a look at Obama, and take a look at some of the things that he's done. This is the same thing, the country is very divided. And we did, with Obama, we won an election that everyone said couldn't be won, we beat ... ... Hilary Clinton. Now, you know I used to call her crooked Hilary..."

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Thank you for your service.

[–] Zron 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s like listening to a toddler who’s just learned about sentences.

They’ll start talking and each word leads to the next, but there’s no cohesive thought being it.

Astounding that this man can apparently hold the attention of a crowd

[–] mo_ztt 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I came here to feel and be told who the enemy is. And I'm all out of feels.

[–] CADmonkey 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Go into any nursing home in the US and you can find at least five people who talk exactly like this. Its dementia, folks.

[–] FReddit 7 points 1 year ago

I've long suspected he has dementia from untreated syphilis.

[–] mo_ztt 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would have loved it if there was someone at my grandma's place that would have stood up and made fractured speeches like this. Coming from someone who's aiming to get himself back in charge of the country after doing his best to drive it into a canyon for a full term of office, it's a little less funny.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Someone like Trump is likely to be a huge bully in a nursing home. Probably not someone I’d want my loved ones being around.

[–] mo_ztt 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah, accurate. At the same time a lot of nursing home people give no fucks though. He could upset people or do physical damage to the other residents which wouldn't be ideal, but also they might just start whacking him hard with their cane and put his tough guy demeanor to the test.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They link to what I assume are videos, because Salon didn't show them to my browser. I'm assuming it has something to do with the way I have javascript blocked.

[–] PwnTra1n 12 points 1 year ago

the article has embedded tweets/twitter videos there

[–] kromem 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Jury

Keep confessing to new crimes infinitely and they'll never be able to catch up to you!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

That is one way to prolong the court trail enough to make it to the election without being found guilty.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago

I think the point here is if he can get any of his jury to slip up and admit or say they saw some of this on TV/online, and that it colored their opinion of him and helped them come to a verdict, that's a mistrial and they have to start this all over again. And that would put his trial until after the election giving him the possibility of immunity once again as a sitting president.

[–] TheJims 17 points 1 year ago

ABC Always Be Confessing

[–] Treczoks 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Everything you say can be used against you." If he simply ignores his right to remain silent, well, let him amass rope to get him hanged.

[–] eran_morad 7 points 1 year ago

Yo, if you haven’t seen the clips in this article, do yourself a favor and click that shit. It’s fuckin crazy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

his.. Um...honesty...is refreshing