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A biotech company says it put dopamine-making cells into people’s brains (www.technologyreview.com)

submitted 1 year ago by L4s to c/technology

45 comments fedilink hide all child comments

A biotech company says it put dopamine-making cells into people’s brains::The experiment to treat Parkinson’s is a critical early test of stem cells’ potential to tackle serious disease.

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[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This could help with more than just Parkinson's. ADHD, schizophrenia, depression, OCD, restless leg syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome... these are all linked to abnormal dopamine levels.

I'm excited to see how this goes. The article makes it sound like their results have been just barely higher than what they might expect from a placebo, but hopefully that won't be the end of it.

[–] NegativeInf 45 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yea. I have ADHD. Gimme dem dopamine cells. I'm tired of people talking shit because I take a prescribed stimulant.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

People say negative things about that? That's crazy, people are judgmental about stupid shit.

[–] captainlezbian 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude, I’ve gotten rejected from jobs because of it. Yes it’s illegal, no it’s often not worth suing if the government decides not to take the case

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Don't tell them next time.

[+] DarkWasp 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It wouldn't come up in an interview, unless it's a tiny business.

Being ADHD myself, it wouldn't surprise me if the person above made it a topic of conversation themselves. Inability to shut ones mouth is something I am more than familiar with.

[–] T156 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It could also be a matter of them disclosing it to get accommodations.

"By the way, I have ADHD, so might need a bit of help here and there" seems entirely reasonable for someone to say in an interview, but might also get them rejected.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Oh it's totally reasonable to bring it up but I still wouldn't do it though.

Rarely have I had a company be upfront about any issues they have so I am more than willing to reciprocate.

[–] oodarthvader 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Pre-employment drug screens test for amphetamines so it will come up on that screening if the company does them.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have never had a problem with that. If it's a prescription and it shows on a test, it's not any business of the prospective employer. When I am at the testing facility, I always disclose to them that I am taking amphetamines. I dunno if they have a box they need to check off for that, but I really don't care. Since my medications are legal, any disclosure of that testing data would fall directly into the category of HIPAA and not something your average company can handle.

At least in the US, scheduled medication is tracked fairly hard. I suspect my name would come up if the testing facility checks for that kind of thing. (Just speculation: I have no idea how the system works on the backend.)

More speculation: There may be specific markers in legal, scheduled medications. Is that a thing? If so, it might be a clue into legal or illegal use for the test.

[–] oodarthvader 1 points 1 year ago

That's a good point. My understanding of how results are provided to employers was incorrect.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You will come up positive on a pre employment drug test though correct?

[–] T156 2 points 1 year ago

Depends on the drug. Not all of them do.

[–] NegativeInf 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've literally had pharmacists "tut tut" me about being prescribed them, called an addict, questioned if I really need them, had them called legal meth. Like bitch, if my brain could get addicted to this shit, I wouldn't forget to take them!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Ugh, yeh I hate judgemental pharmacists. I take a couple of controlled substances, but I've found a pharmacy nearby where they are super nice and happy to have my business. Now my whole family goes there for all our pharmacy needs, even if the shitty chain discount place might be a little cheaper.

[–] Noodle07 4 points 1 year ago

I have adhd and you know what's worse than taking stims every day? Not taking them! I sooo wish we had another solution

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I personally would prefer more testing of psychedelics, like psilocybin. While that acts on the 5HT2A receptors causing more serotonin to be available (similar to SSRIs) it could potentially help with all of those conditions you listed as well. It absolutely helps my depression and anxiety and seems to have helped others.

Oh. You can't patent a widely available mushroom. I grow and give them out for free.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

i hate giving anecdotal evidence, but i wasn't expecting it to be such a black and white change for me personally.

i can draw a clear line between the previous twenty years of my life, and a few years ago.

it's just weirdly amazing to able to have a small thing go wrong and just be like "ah dangit." rather than having a depressive spiral and mourning my own existence for the rest of the day.

not that i don't sometimes have pessimistic thoughts or bad days, it's just not overwhelmingly defining of my every moment.

at the very least, i'm eager to see a lot more research being done. if it is legitimate, and others can have the same change in life experience that i've had, then it's a damn tragedy it hasn't been studied more thoroughly ages ago.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Yeah, its been an interesting transformation for me over the last few months, for sure. Psilocybin stopped being a party drug for me a while ago, actually. The drug isn't "showing me things" that I didn't already know, TBH. What I it is allowing me to do is parse through the extremely complex mind-fuck that I have been building for myself over the last 40 years.

My depression is gone and my anxiety is fading. I stopped my SSRIs a few weeks ago and had the mildest withdrawal from them that I have ever had in my life. My sleeping habits need a fuck ton more work, but one problem at a time.

Similar to Stamets and his story about stuttering, I am learning that I have much more control over my body than I previously realized, mood included.

I don't want to go so far as say it is a miracle drug, but it is absolutely rebuilding parts of my brain that I was trying to extinguish with hardcore alcoholism. There is something to this.

More controlled research please. If anyone needs a guinea pig for lab testing, sign me the fuck up! (I am trying to get in a study at UC Boulder this year so they can poke at me a bit.)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've never tried shrooms but I'd love to, not sure if I expect it to help at all with my adhd but at least the depression might improve, and I've heard it can make a person more empathetic, which sounds awesome

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have had little improvement with my concentration and still lean heavily on my daily Adderall so I can be functional at life.

To my limited understanding, most people with ADD/ADHD also have anxiety and depression. I mean, it makes sense. We tend to struggle with things that most other people find simple or second nature and that is extremely stressful. I believe that is the source of the anxiety, which can lead to depression after a while. Just my theory, anyway.

If you do decide to try psychedelics, remember that you are just going for a small journey inside your own brain and it can be jarring as fuck the first couple of times. However, I personally welcome what others might consider a "bad trip". My personal view is that a "bad trip" is part of my mind that I need to confront and understand at an extremely personal level.

With practice, I have learned to shut off negative emotions as easily as turning off a light switch. It's a very peculiar feeling, to say the least.

And yes. Extreme empathy is one of the best feelings you can get and it is also something I am trying to carry with me into my daily life. It really is a powerful experience to feel connected with everything around you.

At the end of the day, If you are in a comfortable environment and have some good music going, it is a very healthy thing to do.

I could go on for hours, but alas, it is late.

Take care!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks for the response! I'm falling asleep myself and don't have much coherent to say in response lol but I enjoyed reading what you had to say. It has me even more interested in trying shrooms.

[–] bfg9k 41 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If we can get to a point where I am retired and can get a Joywire like in Rimworld, I am definitely doing it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm glad I'm not the only person to immediately think of the Joywire from RimWorld.

[–] stoicmaverick 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Joywire sounds great and everything, but have you ever been vindicated in public? Oh man, so much better. Happened to me today.

[–] Quasi 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What happened?

[–] stoicmaverick 1 points 1 year ago

Just a work thing at a meeting that I'd been preaching for a while. My direct boss disagreed, but a regional supervisor there acted like my position was the obvious one in front of my boss and team.

[–] z00s 23 points 1 year ago

Sounds kinda ominous until you read the subheading haha

[–] qooqie 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Oh okay! That’s weird! I am a little hesitant of having any cells injected into my brain tbh

[–] UFO64 7 points 1 year ago

Right? Let’s see this pass rigorous muster first.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

if i develop parkinsons in my late ages, id be down partially so that future generations can get better and more refined treatments.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I'll be a guinea pig

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

As someone with severe depression, I'd willingly jam a hot poker through one of my eyes and into my brain if I actually thought it'd help

[–] andrei_chiffa 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A) We already don't know how neurons interconnect (eg why infants loose ~ 70% of their neuron connections between 1 and 3 years). B) That's not how dopanime works C) That's not how Parkinson works either

[–] Mr_Dr_Oink 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For the uninitiated, can you elaborate?

Why is this not how it works?

[–] andrei_chiffa 6 points 1 year ago

Sure.

The problem is that the brain is not a squishy uniform cell mess that just reacts to some chemicals (dopamine/serotonine/...). All of those are neurotransmitters to specific classes of neurons that have a very specific topological position to perform their function.

So if you just throwing in random neurons here and there, they won't do anything. They are not contributing to any pathways.

Serotonin re-uptake inhibitors and dopamine generator drugs (aka opioids) make the signal send by the "correct" neurons that are there stronger, contributing to the desired effect.

The problem with Alzheimers is the death of "correct" neurons, that occurs before Alzheimer is manifested. So just injecting new ones is unlikely to do anything.

Moreover, the neurons don't just live outside brain. They need to be immortalized to live in a Petri dish. And to acheive it, the only way we can go now is to add factors that in the context of human organism are considered as cancerous.

So it's a combo of "unlikely to be efficient" and "potentially likely to lead to cancer". With Parkinson the tradeoff might be acceptable, but this kind of projects is definitely that raises some red flags for me.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Soo kinda like the hippies. Just tech instead of chemicals...

[–] ComfyMuffin 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh no, that's terrible, where? Where exactly?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Is this kinda a Lifetime subscription for MDMA?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

They had me in the first half ngl

[–] T156 2 points 1 year ago

If it works, it would be interesting to see if it could also work for people with other forms of brain injury/damage.

Could you use it to help restore function to someone who had a stroke?

[+] [email protected] -7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Please , pump me brain full of tiny dopamine generators, baby! Wait ! What do you mean it's dangerous and experimental? No, No, No, you don't understand ! I fucking beg you ! Please, for the love of God ! "Sobbing"

Read it as if it was like a 50s era movie and a woman is begging for the main character attention. With all the overreactions and gesticulations. (that's what my brain imagined )

[–] T156 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

…What?

Your brain is already full of those things. Them not working properly is partly how things like Parkinson's and ADHD come about. Going by the article, while there was noticeable improvement in Parkinson's symptoms, it also wasn't a complete cure, and the patient didn't have a massive seizure, so it's not as though they're flooding their brains with grams upon grams of the stuff.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I meant more like nanobots. Why are people taking the dumb dialogue bit my half awake brain thought too seriously . Isn't "read it as if it was a drama show from the fifties" enough to understand it as over exaggeration.