this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
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Tesla knew Autopilot caused death, but didn't fix it::Software's alleged inability to handle cross traffic central to court battle after two road deaths

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[–] jeffw 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Didn't, or couldn't? Tesla uses a vastly inferior technology to run their "automated" driving protocols. It's a hardware problem first and foremost.

It's like trying to drive a car with a 720p resolution camera mounted on the license plate holder versus a 4k monitor on the top of the car. That's not a perfect analogy, but it's close enough for those not aware of how cheap these cars and their tech really is.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It remains to be seen what hardware is required for autonomous driving as no company has a fully functioning system, so there is no baseline to compare to. Cruise (the "4k monitor" in your anaology) just had to cut their fleet of geofenced vehicles after back to back crashes involving emergency vehicles along with blocking traffic and attempting to run over things like fire hoses.

[–] MrFagtron9000 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Cruise and Waymo have self-driving cars, without safety drivers, driving around cities right now.

We know what hardware it takes - More than just cameras and some premapping is required.

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[–] dub 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

A times B times C equals X… I am jacks something something something

[–] tool 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A times B times C equals X… I am jacks something something something

Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Woman on Plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?

Narrator: You wouldn't believe.

Woman on Plane: Which car company do you work for?

Narrator: A major one.

[–] droans 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When you're selling a million cars, it's guaranteed that some of them will have a missed defect, no matter how good your QC is.

That's why you have agencies like the NHTSA. You need someone who can decide at what point the issue is a major defect that constitutes a recall.

[–] sturmblast 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

but when it's the software it would be the same on all vehicles more than likely

[–] Clent 3 points 1 year ago

Correct. They also push updates so they know exactly what software is running.

They've create a chain of liability.

The big automakers better be taking notes because it they seem to be trying to follow Tesla down this legal rabbit hole

[–] WhyYesZoidberg 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

”One of the major ones”

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Of course not. Fixing it would cost money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto

The other day I said on here that self driving cars arent ready and got downvoted to fuck. This is why I said it.

[–] Ultraviolet 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Here's how to do self driving cars in a reliable way. First, instead of cameras that try to use road markings designed for human eyes, use specially designed roads with guide rails on them to ensure it follows a safe path. Second, for added convenience, these roads could also power the cars so you don't need to stop to charge. Then we could even connect those cars together to increase efficiency. To mitigate the cost, no individual has to own them, they can stop at fixed points to pick up and drop off passengers, charging an affordable rate for each trip, or monthly/annual passes for frequent users. Maybe we could call them trains.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

https://www.wardsauto.com/blog/my-somewhat-begrudging-apology-ford-pinto

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-02-10-mn-1335-story.html

Two examples of the media creating a frenzy that wound up being proven completely false later.

In OP's case, both of these drivers failed to see a semi crossing the road right in front of them even though they were sitting in the driver's seat with their hands on the wheel. This technology certainly needs improvement, but this is like blaming every auto manufacturer when someone crashes their car while texting on their phone.

[–] stackcheese 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

but im saving the planet and making sure elon gets a cut of my money

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I feel like some people are such Tesla fanboys that they will argue when I say Tesla FSD is not real and never has been.

[–] _stranger_ 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Probably because calling something "not real" is infuriatingly vague.

Feel free to expand on your position, I actually do want to know what "not real" means in this context.

If you mean, from a semantics perspective, that FULL means it should be a completely independent and autonomous system, bravo, you've made and won the most uninteresting form of that argument.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I mean, don't call your service something it's not? Words should have meaning? Tesla's Autopilot is very impressive, but it's not fully independent, and that's okay. Honestly if it had an accurate name people wouldn't attack it so much. Other manufacturers are gaining similar capabilities but no one is complaining that their cars aren't perfect either.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I have nearly 20k miles on tesla's FSD platform, it works amazingly well for something thats "not real". There are countless youtube channels out there where people will mount a gopro in their car and go for a drive. Some of them like AIDRIVR and Whole Mars Catalog pretty much never take over control of the car without any drama. Especially in the past ~6 months or so of development it has been amazing.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I remember reading about the ethical question about the hypothetical self driving car that loses control and can choose to either turn left and kill a child, turn right and kill a crowd of old people, or do nothing and hit a wall, killing the driver. It's a question that doesn't have a right answer, but it must be answered by anybody implementing a self driving car.

I non-sarcastically feel like Tesla would implement this system by trying to see which option kills the least number of paying Xitter subscribers.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

At the very least, they would prioritize the driver, because the driver is likely to buy another Tesla in the future if they do.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Meanwhile hundreds of people are killed in auto accidents every single day in the US. Even if a self driving car is 1000x safer than a human driver there will still be accidents as long as other humans are also sharing the same road.

[–] Oderus 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

When a human is found to be at fault, you can punish them.

With automated driving, who's to punish? The company? Great. They pay a small fine and keep making millions while your loved one is gone and you get no justice.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

People generally aren't punished for an accident unless they did it intentionally or negligently. The better and more prevalent these systems get, the fewer the families with lost loved ones. Are you really arguing that this is a bad thing because it isn't absolutely perfect and you can't take vengeance on it?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I think the whole premise is flawed because the car would have had to have had numerous failures before ever reaching a point where it would need to make this decision. This applies to humans as we have free will. A computer does not.

[–] golamas1999 7 points 1 year ago

Full Self Driving is such a sim name. The feature is level 2 advanced cruise control.

[–] fne8w2ah 5 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Yet Phoney Stark keeps on whinging about the risks of AI but at the same time slags off humans who actually know their stuff especially regarding safety.

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