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Trump to declare “illicit” fentanyl “Weapon of Mass Destruction," per draft EO (lemmy.ca)

submitted 5 days ago by [email protected] to c/news

49 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/40917119

https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/trump-fentanyl-weapon-of-mass-destruction-executive-order-draft-scoop

Well this is absolutely frightening in so much that Trump is going to force his way into Canada via military operations by claiming fentanyl as a weapon of mass destruction.

Anyone remember the Bush Administration and WMDs they said were there but never were?

Elbows up Canuck’s. The time to prepare is most likely closer than we think.

top 49 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] andros_rex 71 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

The hysteria over fentanyl is insane. The fact that cops act like they’re going to die from just barely touching the stuff and this is taken seriously is Idiocracy tier.

The opioid epidemic is because the Sackler family and Purdue made money from convincing doctors that opioids weren’t addictive - as in, the epidemic traces back to a letter to the editor that suggested that opioids weren’t addictive and was taken at face value as encouraged by the pharm industry.

The fentanyl shit is a distraction. People don’t typically seek out fentanyl, they seek out substitutes for opioids that they often became addicted to legally, with the full encouragement of the medical industry.

Beyond that, there’s a serious refusal to take pain seriously in the medical community which leads to people looking to self-medicate. (Like, just this year it’s finally standard practice to offer painkillers during IUD insertion - lots of us were told that it wouldn’t hurt/there weren’t nerves there. Yeah, forcing sharp shit through a cervix hurts.)

The opioid epidemic is horrific and tragic, but it’s not the fault of the cartels - they’re just reaching for their cut.

[–] TingoTenga 13 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Very small quantities of fentanyl are used to cut/enhance other drugs, often without the knowledge of the consumer, thus making them more potent/addictive.

[–] andros_rex 22 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

Yes - so the problem is not fentanyl itself, but the addiction crisis. It’s being used to cut heroin. Many rural/poor people in the early naughts in shitty, physically demanding jobs developed issues with pain. They received opioids, which were given out like candy, because the thriving secondary market for oxy and perc’s is profitable, and the Sackler’s were making money off it.

Which causes mega problems. States sue, feds investigate. Then, the pendulum swings overnight. Many people who legitimately needed the pain management from opioids were abruptly caught off. Many people who got addicted after going on them after a work injury or bout with illness were also not really given the tools to deal with what they were experiencing - remember, doctors were told they weren’t addictive, so that’s what they were telling their patients too.

Fentanyl is stronger than horse, so it’s great to cut with. Obviously you want to make money, so you can sell less heroin for more money if you add a bit of fentanyl to it (I do not believe that they are sneaking it into weed, that’s the kind of weird copaganda hysteria shit - but certainly party drugs)

It’s a monster that was created by both intentional evil and negligence. The hysteria over fentanyl the drug exists to cover up the true narrative underneath here.

Like, by no means is fentanyl not scary - fentanyl test kits should be available everywhere and from a harm reduction standpoint I don’t think there’s really anything other than “don’t do fentanyl, like even more than don’t do opioids don’t do fucking fentanyl” - but the hysteria over the form of the demon hides its source.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The problem is actually the Drug War where clearly drugs have won.

[–] andros_rex 13 points 4 days ago

The whole point of the drug war is to have something to nail political targets anyway. The Nixon aide quote about pot and crack to get people against the war and black folks is kinda old hat by now.

Heroin and cocaine were widespread as fuck before they were made illegal. Think about all those patent medicines. People have never stopped doing drugs, but when you make something almost everyone does illegal you give cops the opportunity on who to enforce it on.

Having the “war” narrative, getting the media to air hysterical stories about crack babies and now fentanyl and demonizing anyone who sells or uses drugs, helps them justify the shiny new Bearcats that they will happily turn on us when we get sick of whatever the fuck Elon/Trump are doing.

This is not to say that opioid use is good. But opioid use is a public health issue and an issue of failing social services and not a moral/crime issue. People with substance use issues use because there are insufficient medical or mental health services, because there is no hope for improving one’s life in some situations, because it helps you tolerate things that you have to do but don’t want to do.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

A lot of addicts would be fine with getting fentynal as well as long as they know it's fentynal. It's when they don't know that they OD at higher numbers.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

They wouldn't pay as much for it when they know it's pure fentanyl. Heroin lasts much longer, so you don't have to take it as much to avoid withdrawals.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago

The opioid epidemic is because the Sackler family and Purdue made money

Purdue Pharma. It’s important, because Purdue Pharma and Purdue University are not connected in any way, and when people from the Midwest hear “Purdue” we usually think of the university.

[–] SkyezOpen 4 points 4 days ago

The fact that cops act like they’re going to die from just barely touching the stuff

[–] Ghostalmedia 60 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Calling a drug a WMD.

War on Drugs 2.0.

And that really worked out great, didn’t it?

[–] [email protected] 30 points 4 days ago

For the prison industrial complex, yes. Yes it did.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 4 days ago

Fentanyl isn't even coming in from Canada. These are just more lies as a pretext for aggression.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 days ago (1 children)

This is how he creates cassus belli to invade Canada.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Meanwhile, there's what, 20x more fentanyl coming into Canada from the US than from Canada into the US?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Yes the drugs go from the USA into Canada. But Trump supporters will believe whatever he says, the fascists in power will do whatever he says, and the propaganda machine will work hard on everyone else. Soon it will be unpatriotic to suggest that the USA doesn't need to defend itself against Canada's aggression and weapons of mass destruction. Facts don't matter. Meanwhile we Canadians are sitting here thinking "what the fuck?" and watching the USA prepare to attack us.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Time to start planting explosives in all the bridges along the St Lawrence, and manufacturing dragons teeth.

If they don't exist already.

[–] febra 17 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

This guy is completely bonkers. Someone should put him in a mental institution. And here we thought Biden's mental illness was in decline. Trump's is even worse apparently

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 days ago

Biden on his deathbed won't recognize his children, but will be very happy to see them.

Trump won't recognize them, and scream in anger that something isn't going his way. Like they gave him green jello instead of orange.

Trumps decline into bitter angry dementia is what he deserves. The whole world will get to watch as his screaming receives no attention. Watch as he forgets who he is and what he's done, success and failure. Forgets everything and is only left with a head full of undirected anger and a diaper full of shit.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago

Words mean nothing to Trump, except as a means of getting his way.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't think sarin gas and strong opiates are same-same.

I dunno if anybody has been to a hospital in recent times, but it sure isn't sarin in that IV after surgery..

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

In all fairness

Satin gas probably hasn't killed even a fraction of the amount of oeoppem that opioids have killed. I'm unsure about exact numbers here but I remember the infamous sarin gas attack in the Tokyo metro which killed dozens of people, not millions. Sarin is toxic as fuck and theoretically a kilo of it can kill a country or so, but it is very hard to practically apply to the point where releasing it in a closed metro it still "only" killed a few dozen people at best

Opioids ate great for end of life pain management but then they start giving it for everything up to a headache, apparently, ignoring how extremely addictive it is

Having said that, fuck Trump with his bullshit comparison and ignoring the fact that fentanyl mostly travels into Canada, not out of. All just presences. Prepare.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I'm sure fentanyl is dangerous and all, but does anyone believe Tru mp cares about people who might be hurt?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 days ago (1 children)

lol, no. He's trying to declare martial law.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago

And invade the USA's neighbors.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yes, because words have no meaning and can be declared to mean anything the orange turd wants...

What's next, declaring drag queens to be an invasive species? Adding trans people to the Schedule 1 list of controlled substances? Redefining conflict of interest to mean any transaction that doesn't line Trump's or Musk's pockets? Fucking hell America, fucking hell...

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 days ago (2 children)

No joke, I've heard talk of putting HRT meds on the Schedule list

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Jesus fucking Christ, for real? I try to come up with purposefully exaggerated and completely ridiculous analogies, and this bloody administration still one-ups me with insanity...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

thats the point - make things so mind-fuckingly insane that we just throw up our hands and walk away. look at the selection of people for directorships... each one is more fucking mental than the last. pure, unadulterated gaslighting.

[–] andros_rex 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Testosterone is already Schedule 3 and has been - same as ketamine and cocaine. You can’t DIY T legally, although I’m sure practically it’s not hard to hit up some roidheads.

Estrogen isn’t scheduled. Can’t cheat in sports with it I guess 🤷‍♂️

I don’t think they could do blanket bans on HRT - way too many cis people are on HRT. Cis women often take estrogen after menopause, an hour on a conservative AM talk radio station will get you at least fifteen ads for men with low T.

They’d have to make it specifically a ban on trans people on HRT, and that would get really difficult to enforce. Not that they care, but there is hope. The doctors who care about us are learning how to code things and word things in different ways.

(If they do take my script away somehow, I’ve always been tempted to walk into a low T clinic and tell them that I’m cis to see what happens. After that, the roidheads.)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I don’t think they could do blanket bans on HRT - way too many cis people are on HRT. Cis women often take estrogen after menopause, an hour on a conservative AM talk radio station will get you at least fifteen ads for men with low T.

The cruelty is the point. That's just a bonus

[–] andros_rex 1 points 4 days ago

I can get them not caring about post menopausal women. But the second Daryl can’t get his dick hard enough for thirty seconds of fun with his wife, then we’d probably see an actual Revolution.

[–] x00z 6 points 4 days ago (2 children)

A war on drugs never works.

When the USA left the Taliban in power, one of the conditions was to stop the opium production (which is used for heroin). They stopped most of it and suddenly 80% of the worldwide supply was gone. This made people look for alternatives and fentanyl filled the hole the USA created. It's extremely potent because that makes it much easier to traffic.

The more illegal drugs are, the more dangerous they are.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

This war isn't supposed to "work". It will be to distract from his domestic failures including the deliberate destruction of the economy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

That certainly exacerbated the issue, but really it started with flooding the market with illicit oxy prescriptions, then going the complete opposite direction and not giving prescriptions to those who need it. That coupled with the fact that for a while fentalogs were pseudo legal equalled a huge influx of cheap opioids. Once consumers got used to fentanyl there was no point in using more expensive albeit safer opiates like Heroin.

[–] jordanlund 9 points 5 days ago

So here's the thing... Fentanyl is a crisis, and the amount it takes to kill someone is MINISCULE.

For example, there was this seizure locally:

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/news/read.cfm?id=533621

ELEVEN POUNDS of fentanyl.

To give you some idea, that's 4,990 grams. A fatal dose can be as little as 2mg (depending on body size, resistance, etc.).

So that comes out to be around 2,495,000 fatal doses in just ONE seizure.

2 pounds:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/portland-area-fentanyl-trafficker-sentenced-federal-prison

6 pounds:

https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2024/01/09/leader-portland-area-drug-distribution-organization-sentenced-more-eight

50(!) pounds:

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/crime/portland-50-pounds-fentanyl-drug-bust/283-678be7e8-a613-4412-932e-0721ec36678a

And that's just locally...

But... and a big but... it's not coming from Canada. Or even from Mexico. It's coming THROUGH Mexico, but the sources are largely gangs from Honduras.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/two-honduran-nationals-residing-gresham-indicted-roles-fentanyl-trafficking-conspiracy

https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2023/01/25/honduran-man-arrested-portland-trafficking-rainbow-fentanyl-and-firearms

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edca/pr/honduran-national-extradited-united-states-fentanyl-trafficking

https://nbc16.com/newsletter-daily/honduran-man-arrested-in-portland-linked-to-international-drug-trafficking-operation-fentanyl-meth-cocaine-rainbow-m30-fake-counterfeit-pills-sell-drugs-conspiracy-possession-distribute

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Oh good. That means we must invade Mexico because so much comes over the border. And of course this means we must attack China to defend ourselves against their WMDs. Canada is the least of our (already not really) fentanyl problem, but of course Trump will seek to justify invasion that way.

At this point I only wish those rock chewers would just be honest. Just tell everyone you invade Canada "just because" in a war of naked aggression. That's en vogue anyway.

Edit: Canadians, take a shovel and start digging trenches along the entire border. 3 trenches deep, with extra circular ones around cities and logistic hubs. Place explosives on all bridges near the border. Change the location of your mobile AA systems, every 3-4 days. All of this can be done without conscription or rationing to increase weapons manufacturing and might be enough to have Canada be considered too difficult to invade without horribly losses. Plus it would be an amazing statement of rejection towards America in general and Trump specifically. Peace time is over, start digging.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Canadians, take a shovel and start digging trenches along the entire border. 3 trenches deep, with extra circular ones around cities and logistic hubs. [...] All of this can be done without conscription

I think you may be somewhat unfamiliar with just how vast that border is. It's the longest international border in the world, 8,891 kilometers (5,525 miles) long.

If the Americans really do invade we'll be defending via means other than World War I era trenchworks.

[–] warbond 4 points 4 days ago

Just build a wall. Make America pay for it.

[–] febra 1 points 4 days ago

Good luck with China. The US will get obliterated. I hope Trump leaves NATO by then so I won't get drafted in his braindead wars. Otherwise, I'm moving to Antarctica.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Fuck. Our country is invading Mexico, aren't they?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

And/or Canada, Greenland and Panama. They're casting about for any excuse. Fuck the new Nazis.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

Canada, probably. They've been ramping up the "fentanyl coming from Canada" bullshit for weeks now.

[–] pixxelkick 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I think it's more likely this is going to be used as more pretext for cancelling trade deals

Invading canada would go so incredibly poorly for the US, it'd be political suicide for Trump.

The fastest way to end your political career for right wingers is get troops killed, unironically.

A big part of what triggered the left swing after bush was troops dying in Iraq, it's the biggest way to nuke your popularity amongst right wing nutobs.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

My main concern would be that Trump et al are drinking their own kool-aid and genuinely think they'd be "welcomed as liberators" if they invaded Canada. They've certainly made it sound that way, talking about how awesome it'd be for us as their "cherished" 51st state, with all that great American healthcare and whatnot.

The invasion would turn brutally bloody instantly, but some of that blood would be Canadian so I'd rather not get to that point.

[–] pixxelkick 1 points 4 days ago

I'd rather not as well.

But I deeply doubt this will happen, that's not the gameplan here.

Trump is way more interested in money, invading canada isn't going to personally line his or belongs pockets.

This is more about trade deals.

[–] x00z 3 points 4 days ago

Doesn't most of the fenta come from China?

Is Trump going to war with China?

[–] Treczoks -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

And the vast majority of it is most likely produced in the US of A.

[–] SoftestSapphic 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The powered chemical precursor which allowed all this fent to be produced was engineered by a Chinese biopharma company, who then sells it to south American cartels who synthesize the fent there and then move it up into the US.

[–] Treczoks 0 points 3 days ago

When they produce it in Mexico and move it to the US, it is just because production costs in the US are too high.