No Stupid Questions

They aren't feminists as they impose a singular, white european centric, view of what a woman can be.

While they claim to seek feminist goals, those goal don't extend to women of colours or from non european cultures who often don't fit their preconceived notion of what a woman should be, notion that was built by the patriarchy and colonialism/colonialist propaganda.

This way of thinking is also where their transphobia comes from, and the transphobia is what they use as a basis to validate and justify.their racism.

See the case of Imane Khelif for an illustration of what I'm saying here.

I'd say no because trans women are women.

Another name for TERF is Feminism-Appropriating Radical Transphobe, or FART

Based on a couple of arguments I've now had, they actually sound a lot like manosphere, anti woke people. Just a bit more intelligent and well read. But even the "trans ideology" phrase that they like to use is just their version of "woke agenda".

I think that it is a sect of feminism that has been created and seeded by the same right wing christian nationalist types that are also behind the manosphere and MAGA. The Peter Thiel and Elon Musk types. They realised in the '90s that calling everything "satanic" wasn't working, so they started coming up with new terminology to pull people in.

First it was "SJWs", then "woke" but it all attracts the same kind of people. And "trans ideology" was the term they came up with for women that read and aren't completely dense. So they're all behaving like reborn christians and going around stomping out anything the norm. But they also sincerely believe they're right.

But honestly, based on the conversations I've had so far, all alt right people have the same talking points, which TERFs definitely are a part of. They're just, as I say, not as clearly dumb as other alt right types.

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: TERF is an acronym for Trans-Excluding Radical Feminist. They are indeed feminists; they believe that women should not be inferior to men. They also incorrectly believe that transwomen are actually men because they have penises, and therefore do not accept them as part of the feminist movement.

One thing that is often forgotten¹ is that just because you are part of an oppressed minority, or on the receiving end of bigotry, doesn't mean you can't be a bigot yourself. TERFs genuinely believe in tearing down the patriarchy, but they are fundamentally transphobic.

On a related note, Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton were two of the most prominent and influential feminists in 19th-century America. They campaigned tirelessly for women to be treated the same as men... of the same race. They believed that white women should be the equals of white men, and that black women should be the equals of black men, but that black women and men should be inferior to white women and men. And they actively opposed black people of any gender being allowed to vote. They were genuine feminists and also giant racists.

Or for a modern example, look at Israel. Jews may well be the most oppressed people in history, but that doesn't stop Jews in Israel from being incredibly racist towards Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular..

Or look at us Irish. Anti-Irish racism was common up until the 1980s, and did we learn empathy? Did we fuck. The way we talk about Travellers and Poles today is much the same as the way the British talked about the Irish in the 1970s. Heck, I just did it there when I referred to Travellers as being distinct from the Irish, even though they are obviously Irish.

Similarly, the Fediverse in general and Mastodon in particular was largely built by trans people but keeps driving away black people, because a lot of white trans people are also pretty damn racist.

To summarise: Those who fight for social justice and still be bigots.

¹definitely related to the perfect victim fallacy

Terfs by definition exclude women and are therefore not feminist. Hate groups often try to legitimise themselves by adopting more reasonable names even when it goes directly against their views, eg "All lives matter" formed specifically to counter the claim that black lives matter.

Damn, you see those worms? What did you do to the can?

Look, this is a very hot button subject. So I have to make a disclaimer.

Trans rights are human rights, full stop.

TERF: trans exclusionary radical feminist.

There's two parts to that. The first one is "radical feminist". That ideology is where the people that hold to it believe that society as a whole has to be restructured to eliminate patriarchy and male domination. Those two things are damn near identical, but there's enough difference to matter for some things.

The other part is "trans exclusionary". As should be obvious, the concept is a rejection of the principle that trans women are women.

Now, the term terf has expanded to include any woman that rejects the womanhood of trans women, even if they aren't actually radical feminists.

So, no, not all terfs are actually feminists. But only because the terminology has shifted. At this point, I think it's fair to say that it's shorthand for transphobic women despite its origin.

That being said, yeah, radical feminism is an accepted aspect of feminism as a whole, so technically any terf that is a radical feminist isa feminist.

That's the strict answer to your question

Here's the problem with that.

Who decides what is and isn't womanhood? Who decides what is and isn't acceptable in defining feminism, or who is and isn't a feminist?

Within the framework of radical feminism, and only within that framework (see my initial disclaimer for my belief), trans women being born with male anatomy can exclude them. There are inclusionary radical feminists that see trans women as a natural extension of the principles. Some of those, however, also lump trans men as enemies because they've abandoned their womanhood to submit to the patriarchy.

Radical anything tends to be about absolutism. It's all or nothing.

And that's where terfs fall. That's where radical feminists fall, no matter who they do or don't include/exclude. So, it's actually difficult to peg them as transphobic, because the underlying belief system is not the same as other forms of transphobia. It does still fall under duck rule (they walk and quack like transphobes), but when it comes to deconstructing their arguments, you have to come at it from a different angle when combating their attempts at enforcing their beliefs. It's like trying to fight a grease fire with water if you don't come at it right.

I know that's beyond the scope of your question, but I think it's an extension that matters.

Right now, the war is about survival. And that war currently is one that needs minds changed. If you go at terfs as standard bigots, you run afoul of women that aren't terfs, but can be influenced by them when they can claim to be targeted as women.

In their heads, it's a battle to keep men out of women's spaces, to keep the invasion of men into yet another aspect of women's lives. Since the fallout of misogyny and patriarchy is actually a constant pressure to fall into line, any attacker becomes the enemy. You can't sway the undecided when you are actually attacking the terfs as bigots, dismissing them yet again for being women, for not acquiescing to external controls.

You have to go specifically at their arguments, surgically. You aren't going to sway the terfs. But you can sway others by deconstructing their arguments, in a way you can't with a "normal" transphobe that's using religion or arbitrary hate (woke haters mainly) as their driving cause.

I'm not saying that you can't counter terfs. That you have to accept their belief as valid. Again, see my disclaimer. I'm only talking about how to frame the war of words to limit their effectiveness.

Part of that is accepting that they are a branch of feminism, or can be.

Nah, they're not feminists, they're just pretending. Trans rights are human rights. All transphobia is sexism.

For example, denying someone's right to be a man, just because he has a vagina... is misogyny. Or at the very least, denying people rights for having a vagina.

That's why I call them farts (feminist appropriating radical transphobes) because terf isn't accurate.

I'm sure some are... but I would say certainly seems to be a much larger percentage that prioritize their hatred of trans... and don't seem to do a lot of actual reach in protecting women.

Big thing is the terf label or stereotype is generally assumed to try to make it look like you are fighting for a group, rather than fighting against. Lets say hypothetically I'm claiming to be super in favor of protecting birds, and say that I hate wind farms because they kill birds

If you never once hear me talk about house cats, or poachers, or any of 500 other things that can kill birds, you'll pretty quickly catch on that I'm not actually pro-bird. Especially if I start reposting statistics about wind farms that have already been debunked etc...

As a feminist who stans for transpeople I personally don't believe terfs to be feminists and there are a couple of reasons as for why I believe this to be the case:

Transwomen believe themselves to be just as genuine as cisborn women. As such, transwomen often fight for the same rights and desires that cis women want. Empowering transwomen also help cis women in this system, so kicking down your fellow allies and supporters is suicidal.

For those reading this, if you believe that you're a true feminist then I strongly recommend supporting and standing with the transcommunity as they will help you in reciprocal quid pro quo fashion.✊🌻

The name states that the person is a radical feminist

I think you're going to get into some "no true Scotsman" territory here pretty quickly, there's not exactly a worldwide organization that determines the "feminist agenda" or a universally agreed-upon checklist that determines that you are or aren't a feminist if you check so many boxes. It's going to depend a bit on who you are, where you come from, etc.

For example, if you come from some sort of backwards ultra-conservative Christian background, it might be fair to call you a feminist just because you think women should be allowed to wear pants instead of a dress, because in that context you are, even if most of the rest of the world has long-since moved past that stage of feminism.

I think most if not all TERFs probably hold some amount of views that could be called feminist from certain perspectives. Whether or not they mesh with any of the more mainstream views on feminism is a different matter entirely.

EDIT: to be clear, TERFs absolutely do not mesh with my idea of feminism, to me you're way behind the curve on feminism if you're not recognizing trans women as women.

No transphobic person calls themselves a TERF, only transgender people use that term

activism means nothing if it’s not intersectional!