He didn’t cheat on her, but that doesn’t mean she was obligated to be ok with what he did. If he wanted to have a chance with her ever again, sleeping with someone else while they were on a break (or even immediately after breaking up) was a stupid thing to do. Part of Ross’ problem was he was so focused on the technicality that they weren’t actively together instead of the reality that it still was obviously going to hurt her.
this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
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Yeah that's why it made good TV, they're both right. Not cheating but still hurt her feelings which is a good enough reason to break up with him.
Literally the first thing I would do when I got dumped is go fuck someone else.
It's absurd to break up with someone and expect them to not go live their life.
That’s perfectly fair, but don’t expect the original person to want to get back together with you then. It’s not about whether it was ok for him to have sex with that girl, it’s whether or not Rachel was justified to not want to get back together because of it. Which she was. And he knew it, or he wouldn’t have immediately tried to hide it.
I wouldn't date someone so weird about sex, but Rachel was wrong here as she is most of the time, because her arc is her learning how to be a functioning person
Ross's arc is learning to trust again, and the copy girl was a big part of that.
When the show begins, he's recently divorced from his wife, the mother of his child, who has not only been cheating on him, but hiding a huge part of who she was. It's played for laughs, but Ross has massive insecurity issues throughout the show, repeatedly putting women on pedestals and engaging in absurd displays of jealousy and peacocking.
Rachel was the ultimate prize, the one he's always wanted, and getting her turned out to be an actual relationship with all of its ups and downs. He was beginning to see Rachel as a person instead of aome external validation that he's a worthwhile man and partner. Taking a "break" massively undercut his ability to manage his insecurities, so when copy girl flirted with him, it was like an awakening. He wanted her, he was unattached, and she wanted him. He knew it would upset Rachel, but he was angry and hurt and didn't care about her feelings in that moment.
His arc finally landed when he fell asleep reading her letter and unknowingly took full responsibility for their issues as a couple. Old Ross, recently divorced Ross, might have bit his tongue and taken the abuse because he felt inadequate, unworthy of Rachel. Post copy girl Ross realized that he is good enough as he is, flaws and all.
He knows he hurt Rachel, and he regrets his decisions, but he sticks up for himself and insists she accept her share of the blame. He wants a relationship, but one built on trust and mutual respect. Rachel is off the pedestal, and it takes a while for them to come back around (I honestly don't remember the timeline for later seasons).
Totally agreed re:Ross, but knowing you've hurt someone doesn't make the person you hurt "right." My point is that Rachel was wrong to be upset and it makes total sense that Ross hooked up with that girl when Rachel had just broken up with him.
Rachel goes from being a grown child to bring an adult over the series, and at this point she responds like a teenage girl, not like a grown woman.
Def agreed on everything you wrote though
Right and wrong aren't viable concepts in a relationship. It's not a competition, and there is no winner or loser.
Ross was not thinking about Rachel's feelings when he slept with the copy girl. That's why it hurt. She grows as a person, but it still feels like a betrayal, and it takes her accepting some of the responsibility for taking Ross for granted. She's still hurt, and so is he, but they (eventually) reconcile because it's TV and viewers want a happy ending.
In reality, people grow and change and compromise, and most people know more than 5 other people so there isn't "the one" in the end. You find someone that supports you, inspires you, makes you better, and is someone for whom you can do the same. Those are the best relationships. Sex is a part of that, but everyone has different perceptions of sex, how important it is, what dangly bits fit into which holes, and ideally how many concurrent participants are involve. Being compatible means understanding your partner's ideas on the subject, and I think Ross knew the limits of Rachel's tolerance, given that he lied about his decisions.
What I've learned from your deep, insightful assessment here is that we should probably never date lol
Love your take, but I disagree quite strongly with "right and wrong aren't viable concepts" and "there is no 'the one'"
I did very much enjoy reading your opinion tho and you have a good head on your shoulders.
I guess if you’re viewing your relationship as a form of restriction.
i think it is more like emotional distance?
its creepy to intentionally not be with someone else after a breakup because there is some weird lingering feelings. like get over it move on
One day after breakup you will have some lingering feelings and hooking up with someone else just to suppress them is not a healthy reflex I think. Especially if the other person doesnt know youre with them just to strike a “hit” and feel less shitty with yourself.
I've been in breakups where I immediately got with someone else and I've been in breakups where I wanted to take some time on my own afterwards. Feelings are complicated and there's no right answer to every situation.
It's not healthy, but rebounds are perfectly understandable. Like getting drunk alone after a break up
No I view being dumped as something that makes me sad and getting laid as a shot in the arm that cures the sads for a little bit so I don't become a mopey fuck
They were on a break
Nice try, Ross!
You got me, Rachel!
Ross and Rachel were absolutely on a break at the time, and Ross was fairly certain Rachel was spending the night with someone else. He was absolutely in the clear for sleeping with that girl.
Which makes it frustrating that they focused on it being a break, because everything else Ross did was completely in the wrong.
He was overbearing and paranoid, regularly invading Rachel's life to assert his dominance in front of guys who do not care. Rachel was regularly humiliated by him, and you can't blame her from needing time to recover.
After the incident, Ross made bold lies straight to Rachel's face, and spent the entire episode trying to keep it a secret. Finding out about the incident from Gunther was the icing on the cake of humiliation.
Then later, Ross told yet another lie to Rachel in pursuit of what he saw as easy sex with his dream girl, then claimed that he was justified for it because she was too wordy. And he only admitted his lie when he felt his ego was threatened.
Ross ruined the relationship because sleeping with the copy girl was the only thing he wasn't in the wrong for.
I think "We were on a break!!" was just easier to portray and memorable. But yeah, doesn't matter if they were on a break, what He did was still not good and Rachel were reasonable to not take him back.
She said “maybe we should take a break” and he left without saying anything to her. He didn’t verbally agree to it, and even if he did, hooking up with someone in the immediate wake of that is at a minimum disrespectful as hell.
He said something to the extent of.. ok lets take a break and get something then she clarified. from us.
Not defending Ross or anything, the guy was absolutely the worst. Just wanted to clarify the scene. Top of my head of the Ross things that make him the worst:
This whole thing was ON their anniversary!
Getting on with a student
Making out with Charlie after she and Joey broke up
Not letting Rachel go for her dream job in Paris
The problem is he didn’t stick around to talk out what “a break from us” means. He stormed out without saying anything when she said that. And it’s not really his fault, he says he assumed that meant a full breakup which isn’t unreasonable. But most people know that in reality when you’re in a big fight with your SO, sometimes you say things that you don’t mean the next day so you probably shouldn’t be making huge decisions that will affect the future of your relationship based on them. Assuming you want the relationship to continue which he obviously did.
He’s not a bad person for doing what he did, he’s just an idiot for doing what he did when he wanted to still be with her. Even if it was a full breakup, that doesn’t mean he couldn’t win her back. Sleeping with someone else makes that much harder though.
First time on lemmy I have blocked someone for a post. Thanks.
Relationship life is not a court case and bringing up words used mean very little. Sometime's even tones supercede the meaning of the word. Empathy rules, and if the other party has no empathy for your understanding of what actually was communicated it can all be very hard. In this situation I would bet not only Rachel but most of us viewers, have little empathy for Ross's understanding of the now status quo of their relationship.
TLDR: Ross acting dumb to not be in the wrong. 😜