this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2025
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Privacy

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We all know Signal, Matrix, Telegram, SimpleX, etc... But if you can't access the internet you can't communicate. Pretty logic. But would it be possible, at least theoretically, to create an app that permits to message people even if the internet goes down?

It might be a dumb question I really have no idea to be honest.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

It’s not p2p but at least many years ago:

SMS.

If the Internet outage is local then the towers would still work and you’d be able to get texts. I went through a few storms where wired home internet was down, the towers weren’t giving me a data connection (no mobile web browsing or anything), but I was able to send and receive texts.

If you really care about what you’re asking after, do what someone else said and get a radio license. It’s 150 year old technology and every time something happens radio operators pop up some kind of emergency communications or bridge to the internet through repeaters or something.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 hours ago

Briar or meshtastic

[–] rottingleaf 7 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

Telegram isn't P2P and isn't recommended. Signal is good, but not P2P. Matrix is decentralized, not P2P. SimpleX is P2P, I think, but not sure.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago

SimpleX uses onion links

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

Simplex uses Severs, you can bring your own one, but it is not peer to peer when talking about direct communication to the recipient

[–] [email protected] 4 points 13 hours ago

positive-intentions is a decentralised P2P chat app. https://positive-intentions.com/

[–] [email protected] 6 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Yea but there are android versions too. Its to send files over WiFi direct phone to phone with no network but some also have chat.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 20 hours ago

Oh interesting! I'll take a look into it thanks.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

yggmail is a fairly obscure and experimental take on email on a mesh network: https://github.com/neilalexander/yggmail

[–] [email protected] 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Would this work through something like meshtastic?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

yggmail specifically, probably not. yggdrasil uses TCP/IP and the Meshtastic latencies to perform connections would be too high AFAIK. It would probably only work in a fairly well-connected network. yggdrasil could be used directly over a WiFi protocol but it would need fairly good reception to function.

N.B. I haven'texperimented with this myself.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

This was a common thing that was developed for the international protests after Arab Spring, which would frequently have their Internet shut down as a State tactic to prevent communication amongst protestors.

Mesh net chat apps like FireChat were born in response

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireChat

Edit: apparently wikipedia says it wasn't developed for protests, it just happened to be released at the same time

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Depending on how far you're willing to push the definition of "messaging" you could look into getting your ham radio license. It can't possibly be censored and allows you to communicate all over the world. You can even build your own radios if a government cracks down on them for some reason.

[–] root 21 points 1 day ago

Meshtastic can be encrypted and is LoRa based. Can easily hit nodes dozens of miles away with a good line of sight. It also relays messages across nodes to reach even further distances.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yes, it's possible. To be honest, I find it very sad that we have grown so dependent on ISP and big telecom companies to have a working network.

In theory, you could have an infrastructure in your neighborhood and be able to play Quake with your neighbors without making use of the phone line at all, completely free of monthly fees and with a very efficient and fast connection too! you'd just need cabling connecting the apartments/houses and some decent routers controlling/restricting access on each subnet. It's a pity that's not a standard thing when designing residences.

Though less efficient and more limited in range, you can technically do it with Wifi and mesh networking too... there are projects like B.A.T.M.A.N (https://www.open-mesh.org/), however, it's not very user-friendly to set up. I believe there have been some projects that attempted to launch embedded devices to act as mini routers for this, but the spread has not been wide enough to make it worth it, sadly.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Briar (Android Only) - Uses Bluetooth, Wifi, or Internet via Tor to communicate. You can theretically create a large mesh group with enough users. Think of protests where the government shuts down the internet. Downside is, bluetooth range is 10 meters 😓.


Also: You can send encrypted text over SMS using Secure Space Encryptor (SSE) (known as Paranoia Text Encryption on iOS). It's an Open Source app that can encrypt text.

  1. Type text
  2. Copy the Ciphertext
  3. Send and tell the recipient to use SSE fo decrypt.

You both have to share a password/passphrase over a secure channel, then use that to encrypt and decrypt.

Or PGP (there are mobile apps), but they aren't quantum resistant. If someone intercept and stores them, it could be decrypted later. So I recomment Symmetric Encryption like AES 256 (so use SSE for better security, since they use AES 256)


You can also encrypt a radio:

Rattlegram is an app on iOS/Android that alllows converting text to audio and play it over your phone’s speaker.

As mentioned before, SSE.

  1. Use SSE to encrypt text
  2. Copy-Paste the Ciphertext to Rattlegram
  3. Sent it over the radio
  4. On the other end, use Raddlegram to turn the audio back to the ciphertext
  5. Use SSE to decrypt.

Voila! Off-Grid Encrypted communications.

Warning: Encryption over Ham Radio bands is illegal in many countries 😉 (but fuck the law lol, who cares)

There's also Meshtastic, but it has much shorter range, but, in the USA at least, they aren't "Ham Radio" so they (supposedly) can be encrypted legally.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Briar has a mesh mode. And i think there was a matrix app doing this too?

[–] jbrjake 50 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The first thing that comes to mind is Meshtastic: https://meshtastic.org/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 20 hours ago

Thanks I'll take a look!

[–] elperronegro 11 points 1 day ago

Check out Reticulum Network Stack using LORA radio. Works really well.

http://reticulum.network/

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

If you don't want to use internet the only ways are to use radio or deploy your own network infrastructure (optic fiber or cell tower), so there's no really any messaging app that can be used without internet. Briar can use Bluetooth but with a limited range, needing an actual dense mesh network.

[–] turbowafflz 28 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I mean this is a terrible answer, but DS pictochat fits that

[–] [email protected] 1 points 20 hours ago

pictochat FTW

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

No joke, I was talking about this recently. I feel like niche groups (me included) are just going full-circle back to the DS days

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

I think SimpleX is mesh?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Besides the already mentioned Briar, there's Berty, can't speak to its quality since I never used it, but I always found the project neat in and of itself

[–] [email protected] 2 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

I found Berty yesterday just after making this post. But as a neophyte in cryptography and everything, how am I supposed to know which one is better for my privacy ? (e.g. between Briar and Berty) Because right now the only thing that I have is what the apps are "telling" me so... Yeah I don't know how to chose.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Honestly if you don't want to think too much about it, go with Briar, it's way more battle tested, while Berty seems like it hasn't seen much adoption since it's younger, both have a bit of development activity I saw, so I can't say if one is more or less maintained than the other

As for the actual question of gauging which has the better cryptographical implementation, I don't know either, beside the most surface level information I know very little.
I believe if you want to look into it, you'll have to start from their whitepapers

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Woah Briar is really cool. I think this is like what I want Signal to be.

[–] Deckweiss 16 points 1 day ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

@Ju135 Briar over WiFi or Bluetooth.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (4 children)

There used to be one years ago that used WiFi radios or Bluetooth or whatever so you could chat to people near you... I totally forget what it was called though.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago (5 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Bridgefy was used more during protests since it's available on both iOS and Android, while Briar is Android only.

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[–] suckmyspez 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Yes, this is totally what I was thinking of!

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

This one works, if you don't mind a little diy and texting only: https://circuitmess.com/products/chatter-lora-communication-device

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

scratch telegram off that list, put Session messenger there instead.

Telegram isn't private, one guy has the master key to the whole thing

[–] [email protected] 2 points 20 hours ago

Yeah to be honest I don't even know how telegram became so popular in the "privacy-oriented world"

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

yes, a lot of people were using those kinds of apps during the free hong kong protests, they go from device-to-device with no internet in between.

No idea what the app is called, but apps like those exist

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