this post was submitted on 02 Jan 2025
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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think we should also force chuck e cheese to perform abortions.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Instead of doctors we'd have AI controlled animatronics doing the deed.

[–] partial_accumen 94 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Perhaps Catholic institutions shouldn't be forced to perform actions against their beliefs, but then they don't get to use the word "hospital" in relation to whatever their building does.

I feel this should apply to pharmacies too. If you want to have pharmacists that can deny you valid prescriptions from your doctor, then they don't get to call that building a "pharmacy". Just like cigarettes there should be a large lettered warning on the door to the establishment informing you that the person inside has indicated they will deny you a prescription if they feel like it. If the pharmacists want to exercise their moral discretion, they don't get to use the word "pharmacy" for whatever building/business they're doing it in.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 3 days ago (1 children)

If they aren't a hospital or pharmacy then they shouldn't be able to practice medicine.

[–] Ensign_Crab 11 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I mean, they could run clinics. Nothing saying they can't specialize. Podiatrists don't perform a lot of abortions, I'd imagine.

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[–] BonesOfTheMoon 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

We have a Catholic hospital here in the city where I live in Ontario. Being publicly funded makes what they do different from the American ones, but despite doing women's health and obstetrics they don't do tubal ligation unless it's approved by their board, so even if you had a planned c section and were planning on having your tubal during the procedure, if you had to have your c section on an emergency basis because you labour early, they won't do it. It's so fucked up. It's a good hospital but come on. It's 2025, most Catholics use birth control. If you don't want to do abortions, fine, but a tubal during a c section is really just saving someone a second surgery.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

they don’t do tubal ligation unless it’s approved by their board

So they aren't above doing the procedure entirely? They're just persnickity about who is "worthy" of receiving the service?

If you don’t want to do abortions, fine

It's crazy how a life-saving procedure is off-the-table on the "Pro-Life" grounds.

[–] BonesOfTheMoon 2 points 2 days ago

Well I mean what are called therapeutic abortions. Not someone who needs a D and C for tissue that didn't pass spontaneously or something. The Americans are crazy in that regard. If a pregnancy is nonviable it isn't therapeutic abortion.

[–] [email protected] 105 points 3 days ago (7 children)

wtf is a catholic hospital? you get wine and crackers while you wait in purgatory?

[–] [email protected] 63 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They add indulgence cost to your hospital bill

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[–] Brkdncr 39 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Many hospitals are owned by the Catholic Church and are a huge source of income.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Not just the catholics, either. Many flavors of Christianity run hospitals.

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[–] [email protected] 63 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I simply don't want religious anything that is essential services.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago (5 children)

What the fuck even is a catholic hospital? Praying the pain away? Offering a free confession close to death?

Surely they are not making use of modern medicine based on science that defies their beliefs.

[–] EncryptKeeper 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

They’re just hospitals. In fact they’re the biggest group of non-profit hospitals in the country. They are generally speaking a very good thing. The main problem as discussed here is their restrictions on reproductive care, which is a huge problem and should not be allowed. It isn’t even like to be employed there you must be Catholic, or even Christian.

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[–] renzev 21 points 3 days ago (3 children)

How come 90% of these twitter screenshots I see on lemmy are all just witty comebacks to fake opinions that nobody actually holds? This is like those "feminist gets rekt with facts and logic" compilation videos on youtube, but for liberals. Poking fun at strawmen every once in a while is entertaining, but it gets old really quickly.

[–] EncryptKeeper 25 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is a 100% real opinion a lot of people hold.

[–] renzev 11 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Nevermind, I think you're right. I was confused by the term "catholic hospital", but I looked it up and apparently a lot of hospitals around the world really do have a religious affiliations.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 days ago

a woman i nannied for almost died giving birth to both of her sons. when she had the second one, she asked them to tie her tubes while they were doing the c section and they refused due to their religious policies. she had to fully recover from the birth and then find a doctor who would do the procedure, then had to recover again from that surgery.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago (7 children)

A hospital is just a building and the organization that owns the building.

The real question is, should hospitals be allowed to force or forbid doctors from providing medical care?

A doctor (Catholic or not) should never, and can never, be forced to perform a medical procedure, including abortions. And they also shouldn't be forbidden from performing a medical procedure.

Hospitals just provide rooms and equipment so that doctors can provide the care that their patients need, within their ability to provide that care.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 days ago (4 children)

If a doctor refuses to perform a medically necessary procedure because of his/her religion, as far as om concerned that should invalidate their medical license immediately.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The is a medical as is already you want to cut the amount of practicing nurses and doctors to fit your agenda. It's a two way street. I don't think a doctor should be forced to circumcise someone either just because it's a religious ritual

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

I don't think a doctor should be forced to circumcise someone either just because it's a religious ritual

I'm petty sure most religious rituals are medically unnecessary, and medical doctors ought to be free to refuse to perform them.

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[–] NotBillMurray 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)

"do no harm, unless it violated your specific religious ideology" that's how the oath goes right?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

“Do no harm” is not the same as “Do prevent harm.”

Also, if you’re citing the Hippocratic Oath,…

I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

The Hippocratic Oath was created to forbid surgery, since it was a provable harm before modern hygienic standards. No one has sworn the original in centuries, but they do swear modernized versions which don't include such ignorant nonsense.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 days ago

This is really it. If a doctor has a moral objection to abortions, maybe gynecology wasn't the right discipline for them to practice. That's on them, and they should be upfront about it being a personal moral objection and for them to seek another doctor.

I'm fine with that compromise, because I suspect those doctors are and will remain the minority, and everyone's rights are preserved.

But if a chief of medicine, or worse, a board of non-doctors, says their hospital won't perform abortions on religious grounds? Then fuck you, you're not a hospital, you are a faith-based healing center, and need to be treated as such.

Hospital administration needs to be science-based care and check their religion at the door, especially if they aren't directly practicing. They shouldn't be making decisions that directly effect people that they are indirectly related to based upon someone's interpretation of an old anthology of fables.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 6 points 2 days ago

should hospitals be allowed to force or forbid doctors from providing medical care?

They provide the facilities, which includes administration and legal and billing. So in that regard, they have to have some kind of say, simply because they need to stock the equipment, train the nurses/MAs, and establish standard protocols for a given procedure. Otherwise, how do you contest a medical malpractice claim?

A doctor (Catholic or not) should never, and can never, be forced to perform a medical procedure, including abortions. And they also shouldn’t be forbidden from performing a medical procedure.

Doctors can and do regularly incur liability if they fail to perform certain necessary medical procedures, particularly in emergency room settings. A doctor that fails to follow protocol can be subject to malpractice. If, for instance, a Christian Scientist doctor refused to provide a blood transfusion to an individual suffering from sever blood loss or a narcotics prohibitionist doctor attempts to do surgery without providing anesthesia, they can get in some serious trouble.

Religious convictions don't override medical protocols. What's at issue is the legality of the protocols as they stand. Can a woman whose health is at risk from pregnancy receive an abortion without the doctors incurring criminal liability?

Right now, it appears that State AGs in prohibitionist states are threatening the licenses and freedoms of doctors who would provide life-saving care. Hospital administrators are acting as intermediaries because the hospital itself would suffer legal liability if staff knowingly permitted/facilitated an illegal procedure.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

That's fine. Just don't expect to keep your medical license as you sit around doing nothing as people die of preventable deaths.

If you're a doctor, your job is to save lives. If you intentionally fail to do that job it shouldn't be your job.

If a firefighter refused to put out a fire because they didn't feel like it, they'd be lose their job too.

[–] Chocrates 9 points 2 days ago

I disagree somewhat. If a doctor is practicing in a situation where an abortion is necessary, it was their duty to not be a doctor if they find that morally repugnant.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 3 days ago

I don't want religious institutions near healthcare. Imposing attitudes of abstinence only moral puritanism on others. Thats not medicine. Like the WHO said 7 almost 8 years ago drug use needs to be globally decriminalized to remove attitudes of discrimination from health care settings. And at the time then nobody foresaw roe v wade being knocked back and turning the clock of social progress back 5/6 decades+ i wish j could say things cant get any worde but they can and they will. So we don’t need the people making things worse involved in the administration of medical care. We already have too many religious bigots with hoarded wealth whispering in the ear of the dumbest moron on the planet who has control of the nuclear football. And healthcare is already bastardized by the incentives of shareholder profits and the vultures of the for profit insurance industry whos sole purpose is tk deny people adequate health care to boost profits whenever possible so lets not shove religion down the throats of people who are often denied basic dignities.

[–] obinice 43 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Religious hospitals? What will they think of next!

At least in countries that charge patients money for their healthcare, these religious hospitals are free, right? Given how much money Christianity makes in donations, and given that their whole religion is all about helping others for nothing in return and without judgement, it would make sense they'd run free hospitals providing healthcare for all, no matter their situation ♥️

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[–] A_Random_Idiot 65 points 3 days ago

If y our religion dictates that you not perform life saving procedures, Then you have no business being in medicine.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 days ago (6 children)

I rotated through a Catholic hospital while getting my degree in genetic counseling. Our whole job was to give women with pregnancies at high risk of genetic conditions all the information they needed to make an informed decision on how they want to move forward, and we weren't even allowed to mention the option of abortion. I was very glad when that rotation was over.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago

I would really like to see someone who is getting their degree or license push back on the requirement to rotate through a religious hospital, on the grounds that it violates the religious freedoms of the students.

If we’re going to have unconstitutional religious freedom laws, we may as well try and use them against our oppressors.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 3 days ago (8 children)

If abortion is an option, it is the only option worth considering.

The only kids who should be carried to term are the ones that have been planned and prepared for.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 days ago (2 children)

If they don't want to perform particular procedures based on their faith then they can call themseves a "Western Faith Therapy Centre"

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[–] SlopppyEngineer 23 points 3 days ago

Reclassify abortion as an exorcism, get a priest chanting some Latin during the procedure and done.

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