this post was submitted on 25 Dec 2024
165 points (98.8% liked)

Asklemmy

44224 readers
993 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy πŸ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

As a thinking experiment, let us consider that on the 1st of January of 2025 it is announced that an advance making possible growing any kind of animal tissue in laboratory conditions as been achieved and that it is possible to scale it in order to achieve industrial grade production level.

There is no limit on which animal tissues can be grown, so, any species is achieveable, only being needed a small cell sample from an animal to start production, and the cultivated tissues are safe for consumption.

There won't be any perceiveable price change to the end consummer, as the growing is a complex and labour intensive process, requiring specialized equipments and personnel.

Would you change to this new diet option?

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Reminder that the meat you buy at the grocery store is as also as human modified as it gets and NOTHING like the wild game that our ancestors ate or even the farm animals from 100 years ago. The animal itself is probably GMO, spends its entire life in a steel cage standing in its own shit and piss and is given specialized processed feed to optimize how much meat it produces (or just has a tube down its throat so we don't have to worry about it eating fast enough). Not to mention tons of antibiotics that are given to the animal just to ensure it survives the hell we put them through which definitely makes it into the meat and therefore into you as well. And they're slaughtered and butchered by underpaid overworked factory workers who have to balance fulfilling brutal quotas with carefully extracting the meat and not getting it contaminated with shit from the animal's guts or the myriad other disgusting things around the meat that you wouldn't want to eat (you can guess how well that usually goes).

Animal cells (without the animal itself and also no central nervous system to experience suffering) growing in a clean, well controlled lab in tanks of sterile cell media doesn't sound so bad in comparison.

Additional reminder that nearly all of the worst infectious diseases in history have been caused partially or completely by animal agriculture: the plague, spanish flu, smallpox, whooping cough, swine flu, bird flu, covid, etc. So if you're worried about the long term health implications of lab grown meat, you should be ten times more worried about long term the health implications of regular meat, to the point where you should be worried even if you don't eat meat.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 days ago (1 children)

As long as it scaled to reasonably the same price as current meat, I'd absolutely do it unless there were some significant downsides like it somehow being even worse for the environment.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago

This ^

If it's better for the environment and doesn't involve the industrial scale poor treatment and wanton slaughter of animals, AND it tastes just as good, I'd be on-board instantly. Even with a premium price hike for consistency.

Roll on quality facon, wagu beeef, and octo-chi k en drumsticks.

I do think that flora missed a trick with vegan, fake meats though...

"I can't believe it's not bacon/ burger/ chicken" they would have slaughtered that ad campaign

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Impossible Burgers already exist and are fucking delicious.

But, sure, if I can have pastrami or corned beef again without requiring a cow experience a life full of torment, emit a cow's lifetime of methane, or have any of that happen where a forest should instead have been left untouched, I'd try it!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

I had some impossible patty from restaurants and it's actually not bad and fairly close to meat flavor.

The beyond stuff is a hard pass.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Yes, absolutely. No risk of virus or bacteria, or worse...

Grown to the size you want...

Of the shape and type you want...

No fat (maybe?)....

What's not to like.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What kinda idiot would want no fat?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The kind that wants realllllly consistent beef jerky.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

Constipation-jerky

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I'd say price is definitely a factor. I already pass over good cuts of meat for that reason. Also taste/texture/overall experience. If it checs those boxes, and it has been on the market long enough to be confident I won't get instant cancer, then 100%! A little marbled fat makes it better though.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago

hell yeah. soon as its not way more expensive than normal meat, i'm down. your proposed technology also sounds like it should mean lab grown replacement organs with zero chance of rejection, which would be amazing.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Is this really up for debate?

Florida bans lab-grown meat, adding to similar efforts in three other states

Much like with the fossil fuel industry squeezing out renewable energies at every opportunity, I suspect we're going to see the powerful agricultural lobbies shut down competitors until the owners of these big businesses can insert themselves as the sole proprietors of the lab meat industry.

On the flip side, retailers are going to want to drive down their costs, so they'll only switch when the price drops below the current floor set by firms like Tycoon and Cargill. But once it does... you'll be foolish to assume what you're eating isn't lab grown if it means a business increasing its profits.

Despite these potential benefits, Haracz believes that the high cost of lab-grown meat products will remain an obstacle for McDonald's and other fast food establishments. He mentions the deals that the restaurant gets when it purchases beef and surmises that these great prices will not be available with lab-grown beef. Haracz also cites pressure from the beef industry, which will likely use its influence to dissuade McDonald's and other establishments from using meat that comes from non-traditional sources.

The end result will be people who want lab meat finding themselves prohibited from buying it and people who don't want lab meat unwittingly consuming it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

There exists a world outside corpo US. Like europe which has better competition in every way. Even ads are better here than in the US.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

europe which has better competition in every way

M&A is coming for Europe in a big way as the neoliberal policies of the states seep in through all the cracks. 2025 is gearing up to be a big year for Euro bank consolidation. We've already seen a lot of the industrial sector hollowed out of the Southern EU states and consolidated in Germany. Crackups like what happened in Yugoslavia in the 90s and border wars like what we're seeing with Ukraine/Russia have also immolated domestic industry in a way we haven't seen since the Years of Lead.

Even ads are better here than in the US.

We'll see how long that lasts. If the UK is a bellweather, it looks like the Elon-ification of your economy is just a matter of time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago

European sad agreeing noises

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago (6 children)

If it was healthy, affordable, and tasty, then yes.

If it isn't all three, then Veganism can continue to go fuck itself.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago (5 children)

You are not limited to meat and lab-created meat, you know? Vegetarians can tell you to eat eggs and cheese if you want. Vegans will tell you that there are large varieties of plant-based proteins, amongst: lentils, soy, whole cereals, even green vegetables. While these tend to not be as complete nor bio-available as meat or eggs, if you combine them you can have various, delicious and protein-rich meals. I am personally working out a lot and my mostly vegan diet (some eggs and cheese from time to time) is enough for my protein needs.

I mean, if your goal is to keep the meat experience, then yeah, I get your point. But other than that....

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I mean, if your goal is to keep the meat experience, then yeah, I get your point.

I think that was indeed very obviously the point. The point of both the comment you were replying to and this lab grown meat idea as a whole.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago

I'm not really good with obvious subtexts, I'm sorry ^^

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 days ago

Veganism is already healthy, affordable, and tasty. Ever heard of a bean? And only doing the ethical thing when it is also the easiest thing to do is just extreme egotism. I'm not saying anyone has to be a saint, but they should at least put more consideration into their actions than "How does this affect me personally?"

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

You haven't mentioned if there are any ethical concerns with this new meat; e.g. environmental cost of the production process, what kind of human labour is required to create it, who is providing that labour and under what conditions are they working.

Provided I had no ethical concerns with it, sure, but a lot of modern innovations tend to have these issues and I assume lab-grown meat would have these issues too.

Edit: Also, I'm opposed to animal captivity, so if there's an ongoing need to collect samples from captive livestock then no, I wouldn't. If it's a "collect it once then it keeps reproducing from the lab samples forever" type of thing then sure.

[–] njm1314 5 points 6 days ago

If I could afford it yeah of course

[–] whotookkarl 3 points 5 days ago

I'd want to try some exotic synthetic meats you can't or shouldn't get anymore like dodo or dolphin. I wouldn't have the stomach to try it but you can bet there'll be some market for synthetic long pig. For normal consumption though I don't eat much meat now so I'd probably just go with whichever if there's no difference in cost or calories.

[–] surph_ninja 3 points 6 days ago

It already exists. We need to be pouring subsidies into it. I would absolutely switch, if it was widely available.

Not only is it better for the environment, but it’s also not loaded with antibiotics or been exposed to fecal matter at the farm.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I've been vegan for almost 25 years, and vegetarian for couple years before that... and I'd be happy it existed, but I wouldn't eat it. I don't miss meat, and the idea of eating any of it just grosses me out.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Same, I get why beyond meat exists but I can't touch the stuff myself and it sucks when that's the only option available

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

I actually like Beyond/Impossible lol. I guess for me it's about knowing that it's made out of vegetables.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago

I would definitely eat cultured meat as long as it’s not too expensive.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

I’d rather go vegan. Falafel all the way.

[–] LovableSidekick 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I'd try it if the price came down. Fake meat is in the store now but I still eat the real thing. Maybe the current stuff isn't what OP is talking about.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yes and I hope the tech can replace dairy too.

[–] Psythik 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Almond milk is good. Tastes really close to dairy milk, IMO. Dare I say it's even better.

[–] kryptonite 1 points 3 days ago

A lot of milk replacements are common allergens. I can't eat almonds. A lot of people can't have soy. I'm guessing very few people are allergic to all of them, though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

1st of January of 2025 it is announced that an advance making possible growing any kind of animal tissue in laboratory conditions

Let me tell ya.

https://youtu.be/EJG3t5Omteg

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Which protein? Sonic hedgehog? Tell genetic engieneers what protein you want, and they will make yeast make that protein. Or ecoli. Or rice. Or tomato. Or anything else.

[–] r0ertel 3 points 6 days ago (3 children)

No, i'd go vegan before i'd eat cultured meat. I'm not opposed to it and it's probably better for the economy and environment, but I have a mental thing about it. Granted if I had to catch and clean my own meat, i'd also probably go vegan. Maybe I'm just squeamish about my food.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Sorta sounds like you already think meat is gross.

[–] r0ertel 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, I'm pretty picky about the meat I do eat. It's the fat and gristle that I can't stand. After a pork chop, it looks like a dissection. I don't like to eat around bones. If I think about it too much, old probably end up vegetarian, which would probably be better for me given my other health issues. I don't think anybody ever died from eating too many vegetables.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

This actually happened to me too for quite a long while. I knew I would be vegan for maybe 10 years before I decided I should just do it one day. Life's weird like that. I will say its pretty important to have fresh veggies and fruits nearby or else its practically impossible no matter what.

[–] argarath 4 points 6 days ago (2 children)

What is the mental thing you have against lab grown meat?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

I do wish more people would come to terms with that, I have no issues with people eating meat provided they're actively aware of what's happened to put that meat on their plate

Too many people never even think about it

[–] ikidd 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Jesus, people bitch about processed foods but have no issues with whatever shit has to be put into this to make it grow?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

Most that bitch about processed foods have no idea what "processed" actually means.

Most of the 'chemicals' they're worried about occur naturally at quantity in plants and fruit.

The lab-grown meat uses the same organics that happen in the animal to trigger growth.

That said, price-wise, real meat will have to become very very expensive before lab-grown meat will be competitive. Breeding cattle is expensive, but a lot of it is just making sure life happens. Cows are hearty, self feed and have immune systems.

[–] captainlezbian 2 points 6 days ago

For seafood yes, but I'm unlikely to bother regrowing the necessary gut biome for other meats

load more comments
view more: next β€Ί