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this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2024
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Good thing DOGE and the rest of the Trump fueled Republicans are foaming at the mouth to completely eliminate federal funding for the California high speed rail project. Thank God they're going to save us from affordable transportation for the masses in favor of continuing to murder the planet actively by distributing microplastics into every square millimeter of the Earth.
We just need to swap all roads out with big orange hot wheels tracks. I don't know if it'd solve the problem but at least it's a suggestion and it'd be sick as hell.
Omg can you imagine? Instead of traffic lights we’d have boosters throwing us into loop de loops 😍
I've been saying this for a while. Not only that, but electric cars are substantially heavier than their ICE-powered equivalents, meaning both tires and roads wear out more quickly. Plus, there's a ton of pollution and other environmental damage caused by battery production that at least partly offsets the lack of tailpipe emissions.
As loathe as I am to admit, because I'm a car enthusiast and I enjoy driving, cars cannot be the default mode of transportation everywhere indefinitely; they will always need to exist, but should mostly be for small centres with no capacity to implement transit infrastructure and last mile type of things.
Plus, there’s a ton of pollution and other environmental damage caused by battery production that at least partly offsets the lack of tailpipe emissions.
The battery production pollution is an issue, however one thing to keep in mind is that once the minerals are out of the ground they can be recycled, unlike drilling for oil. When looked at on a long timeline the battery for an electric vehicle is a lot cleaner than everything needed to power an ICE vehicle.
That said, there's always room for improvement and we should never get complacent. But we don't avoid innovation just because it isn't perfect.
It's not just tailpipe emissions, though - there's an entire supply chain of extraction, shipping, refining, delivery that's needed to get fuel to your local gas station.
The fossil fuel industry always wants to compare the total environmental damage of an EV with just what comes out of the tailpipe of an internal combustion vehicle. Don't fall for it.
This should be the definition of ‘letting perfect be the enemy of good’ Please stop using false oil lobby talking points to attack the transition to electric cars. Electric cars are an order of magnitude better for the environment than petrol/diesel, stop fighting big oils battle for them. Now let’s talk about how we can reduce road journeys through public transport, and reduce environmental impact of tires.
Is that true about the tires though? Electric car tires are designed to be substantially tougher because of the increase in weight, do they actually shed more material?
There's no such thing as an "electric car tire." They just use standard passenger vehicle tires rated for the appropriate weight class.
"Tougher" just means they handle more weight by holding higher air pressure, so they'll have more layers of steel, kevlar, canvas, etc. The materials that makes contact with the road still wear the same.
There is in fact such a thing as an "electric car tire".
Fundamentally you are correct that they are in essence just tires rated for the weight class, but there's more to it than just that.
Electric car tires are usually made with a stiffer rubber than comparable combustion cars, this is mostly to handle the additional weight, but they also stagger the tread pattern, and some have foam inside them, both to improve the noise and acoustics of them. Something that wasn't a problem when there were a noisy combustion engine running. But in an electric car you don't have the engine noise, and therefore hear a lot more of the wheel noise.
None of this help with the particle emissions, but there is in fact such a thing as an electric car tire.
Engineering Explained has a great video if you are curious: https://youtu.be/8pM9o2Ifcro
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You can't really engineer away the need for friction, and if there's friction there is going to be wear.
If EV tires were much better than normal tires with the same grip levels and somehow magically less wear, all tires would adopt that technology.
Not that I'm a materials scientist, but EV tires don't seem much different than other "economy" tires, other than a higher load rating.
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Ban tires!
The American auto industry
Lobbyists
Conservatives
The existence of hundreds of thousands of miles of asphalt paid for by the American taxpayer
Oh, right. Well, I'll just wave my finger once a year and... die, eventually.
The solution is fewer and lighter vehicles. Everyone purchasing oversized EVs is the exact opposite of the solution.
Mass Transit (trains and light rail) Pushbikes, e-bikes, Subcompact, and micro/Kei cars are the answer.
Let’s bring back post world war 2 motorbikes, affordable, reliable, unbeatable.
Polluting, inefficient, unsafe, noisy.
If you go to South East Asian countries where the main form of transport is post WW2 motorbikes, you will notice that they aren’t the safest or most comfortable places to live.
If you have a western budget, however, you can transcend the day-to-day hazards and live in a resort for a pittance.
Polluting - I don't think so, except they're 2 stroke engines, which are rare, nowadays. These days you see even more and more electric bikes.
Inefficient - People often go 2, 3, 4 people on a bike that uses maybe 3 l/100km (78 MPG) or pull trailers wich stuff loaded, while using less space than a car.
Unsafe - totally less safe for the people on the vehicle. I don't know about pedestrians. However, a lot of the accidents happen, because poor education to get the license, if any; hardly any law enforcement and poor vehicle maintenance.
Noisy - not more than a ICE car. Some motorbikes here have broken exhausts, which make them noisy, but that again is a lacking law enforcement and maintenance issue.
I am aware, however, that driving 2 wheel vehicles in ice and snow is not a wise idea, so while it works in SEA, it would be different in colder climates.
Maybe where you live 2 strokes are rare, but when we are talking cheap, it's always 2 stroke. Especially the example the other person gave, Asia is full of 2 stroke engines, all super noisy and poluting. Living near a dense traffic street in Asia is a very interesting form of torture for anyone who enjoys clean air or peace and quiet.
Hell, even where I live, they are mildly popular and very hard to miss when one goes by. To move to clean and quiet alternatives can't come soon enough.
Thank goodness that cheap e-bike motors and solar panels are available to these markets.
Someone with a little bit of intelligence can retrofit an e-bike motor on a pushbike, put some solar panels on their roof, connected to some trusty Lead-Acid batteries in their hovel and they can recharge their e-bike or cargo-bike.
Cheap is a very relative term and I doubt you can reach an equivalent gas powered two stroke on the same budget.
In Asia they use these vehicles as their main mode of transportation, meaning they also need to have power, travel far and carry their family or shopping. Where I live people use these vehicles on the highway and e-bikes have legal restrictions and documentation. Good luck reaching the minimum required speed with an unlicensed self built ebike.
Yet another example of how pretty much every problem is, at its heart, a zoning problem:
- Microplastics? Too much driving, because trip origins and destinations are too far apart to be walkable.
- Greenhouse gas emissions from cars? Too much driving because not enough walkability.
- Greenhouse gas emissions from housing? Poor efficiency because too many single-family homes exposed on all sides instead of high-density housing with shared walls.
- Greenhouse gas emissions from concrete production? Using way more of it than we really need to build huge amounts of unnecessary parking (and much wider streets than we'd need for bikes + transit + only delivery vehicles).
- High housing prices? Not enough housing density.
- Obesity? Sedentary lifestyles, i.e., not enough gym of life.
- Racism? Redlining.
- Wealth inequality? (Among other things), protecting rich landowners from market forces by eliminating competition from multifamily developers that would build out the land to its highest and best use.
See also, this video: The Housing Crisis is the Everything Crisis. He almost gets it, but fails to connect that very last dot, which is that the housing crisis is itself caused by bad, density-restricting zoning!
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If we had those flying cars we were promised, this wouldn't be an issue.
Given how terrible humans are at driving, I think flying cars are a horrible idea.
I’m looking forward to all the noise pollution. Drones, drones everywhere
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Does anyone know of another efficient mode of transportation that has near-zero surface friction?
Because that would be a gamechanger
There are some vehicles that go on iron wheels, on a special kind of iron road that are very efficient. Only bad parts are costly initial investment and difficulties to scale up if the existing network gets overloaded (such as the Swedish rail system who has been over "maximum" capacity for a long time which has put needed maintenance on hold at many places)
Maybe there’s some kind of a wheel, like a metal wheel that could just glide across narrow metal surfaces that could follow a set path….
imagine if it had a flange, so around turns the wheels could hook into the the metal surfaces so they wouldn't go off them, that would sure be neat
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Maglev?
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There is no alternative suggested. The purpose of this movement is to tax heavy EVs. I think that makes it distraction.
The smaller the EV the more range per kwh, and so smaller batteries are needed which makes them more affordable. It is not unreasonable to tax heavy vehicles, but the punch line that motivates this piece is "EV's bad". They could have recommended micromobility for example.
imho we should tax any vehicle that puts an inordinate strain on the roads. ultra-heavy EV's like cybertrucks and hummers are ridiculous and inefficient, and the purchases knew it when they bought them.
but also the cummins diesel powered pavement princess my colleague drives BY THEMSELVES TO THEIR OFFICE JOB day after day, I think that should have to pay an excise tax.
work vehicles certainly deserve cutouts, but they need to be work appropriate vehicles, not just jacked up asshole haulers.
work vehicles certainly deserve cutouts
That thinking is what got us SUVs. Work vehicles earn income, and so probably don't need cutouts.
whatever happened to the green tire technologies that get announced by the big mfg and then never come to market.. like the mushroom based materials
Usually stuff like that is just a distraction so companies can do greenwashing while delaying the implementation of real solutions. I’m going to guess that’s the case but, I haven’t really looked into it.
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