this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2024
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Microblog Memes

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

The ruling class, against whom the internet was a critical tool in the name of democracy, decided they were not going to let us have that tool anymore.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

They found out how gullable religion has made Americans. They will literally believe anything and fall in line like sheep.

"A Republican would eat a steaming bowl of shit if it meant a liberal had to smell their breath after"

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[–] bunchberry 2 points 1 day ago

People put way too much weight on the "power of human ideas." They think if thee is a "free marketplace of ideas" then naturally the best ideas spread and take over. But that's not how the real world works at all. The ideas that are propagated are those that reflect what is "going around on the ground" to speak, not whether or not the ideas are actually good or bad.

[–] [email protected] 146 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Just took em a second to figure out how.

[–] SlippiHUD 143 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Turns out all it took was algorithms promoting hate speech, conservative view points and other rage bait.

[–] [email protected] 129 points 3 days ago (2 children)

As soon as the algorithm become engagement based, instead of “positive reaction” based,

ie. algorithms now promote a post by how many reactions it has recieved, even if these reactions are negative, when it used to promote posts based on positive reaction.

So now ragebait dominates most social media algorithms.

[–] SlippiHUD 61 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Yeah, it's precisely why I stopped using every social media except the fediverse. It was toxic to my mental health.

I feel safe assuming it's been similarly toxic to everyone else's, just some people haven't zeroed in on that being the problem.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (7 children)

Even Lemmy was like this. Especially with the default comment sort “active”, which promotes comments that lead to arguments. My experience has been better since I switched to “top”.

I still haven’t found a good post sort that works for me. “Hot” and “Scaled” literally only promote stuff posted in the past two hours. “Top” is kinda sad because you always see posts 1 day old, and “Active” has the negative engagement problem.

The best solution I’ve found is be on an instance with downvotes disabled and sort by “active” but it isn’t perfect.

[–] thedirtyknapkin 21 points 3 days ago (3 children)

I usually go by top of the last 6 hours and top of the last 12 hours. is that just a thing in my app?

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 days ago

Yeah, how is that going in the Arab Springs countries though? Was that actually a glorious people's uprising, or just another despot using an angry mob to do his bidding?

[–] [email protected] 81 points 3 days ago (16 children)

People love to talk about how 'the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots.'

It's easy to talk about big dramatic battles.

The truth is that it's really a never-ending struggle that requires sweat.

How many people bother to show up for primary elections? How many are willing to get a petition signed to get a good candidate on the ballot?

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod 35 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I do those things constantly and the fact that other people don’t infuriates me.

It’s like a group project and I’m doing my part but we still all fail because nobody else gives a damn.

I hate democracy and people now.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The quote is that the tree is "refreshed" with blood, which is an important distinction. Also, Jefferson wrote it after the founding of the US - he understood that our democracy is not an exception to this cycle.

Yes, if we all did our civic duty not just to vote, but to actually inform ourselves about the choices, we'd be able to maintain democracy potentially indefinitely, but the reality is that a huge portion of people are complacent, and won't take even the simplest of actions until they're forced to. So, democracy degrades slowly as it's desperately propped up by the few who understand its importance until it finally fails enough to start really affecting the people who "aren't really into politics," by which point its too late to use sweat instead of blood.

We water the tree with the sweat of the few, but when that inevitably isn't enough and it starts to wither, we refresh it with blood of the many.

[–] darthelmet 22 points 3 days ago (16 children)

Question: What is the mythical height that American “democracy” has degraded from? The country was founded by a bunch of settlers who violently kicked out the people living there. They set up the government and immediately restricted who could vote and how much influence that vote could even have. They kept some people as non-human property. They spent the next ~century arguing about it until it had to fight a war about it and the result was to leave those people being merely treated as sub-human rather than non-human. Moving on to the 20th century, it took movements of labor and minorities that were met with extreme violence to get anywhere and that’s still left us where we are today, begging for crumbs and for police not to just execute people in the streets.

Then of course there’s all the people we invaded or otherwise screwed with who never even got a vote in the first place. Were they not “doing their civic duty?”

America has never been the experiment in democracy it purports itself to be. It’s a nice ideal to strive for, but in order to do that you have to stop pretending and recognize that there’s nothing to protect or repair. Nothing to go back to. Just something we’ve yet to build.

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 3 days ago (6 children)

What did the Arab spring give the people in the end?

Syria? never ending civil war between factions controlled by foreign interests
Lybia? never ending civil war between factions controlled by foreign interests
Tunesia? temporary improvements now to be revoked by a new authoritarian
Egypt? temporary improvements followed by an US backed coup installing an even worse military dictator

Maybe we were just naive in thinking that social media back then wasn't already doing the bidding of governments against people.

[–] bunchberry 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Democracy implies a system to translate people's will into action, and that implies both physical institutions for collecting information relating to the demands of the population, physical technology for processing that information, and physical institutions that can act on those demands.

The problem is that westerners treat political systems as if they're entirely built upon vibes. You can go to the poorest place in the world and as long as you have good vibes, as long as you get enough people to say the right "democracy" slogans and do the right "democracy" rituals, then you can introduce a true utopian democracy.

The problem is they ignore that we live in a physical world and not a vibes-based world, all societies are built upon a particular material foundations. The idea that you can go to a country that is so ridiculously impoverished that barely anyone can even read, like in Afghanistan, and then through good vibes convert it into a western-style democracy, is just completely ridiculous. The institutions just aren't there, it takes decades to build that.

Westerners then use their vibe-based politics as justification to destroy these countries. "If you don't agree that we should go to war with them, you're just a dictator lover! You have bad vibes!!" Even westerners took centuries to actually evolve to their pseudodemocracies they have now, but they refuse to let other countries go through this same process. They insist they must skip this development process and just become western-style democracies right now, or else they'll get bombed into the stone age, or the CIA will foster some sort of coup or color revolution to overthrow the government and plunge it into civil war or a military dictatorship.

But all this endless war does is make it harder to develop, so in reality western countries end up being the biggest barrier towards actually moving towards democracy. They keep destabilizing them, either through war, coups, or color revolution, which destroys the physical foundations of their society, destroys their institutions and infrastructure, and this makes it more difficult for them to actually progress as a society, and then westerners condemn them and paint them as genetically inferior for not having progressed as much.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

You still assume, that western countries would like to establish democracies as they would consider democracy in itself a value.

But you have plenty of cases where actual democracies were overthrown violently in order to install a compliant authoritarian regime. Iran, Chile, Egypt...

It is never about democracy and the "vibes" are just a farce. It is about installing compliant regimes that grant cheap access to their natural resources, labor, trade routes, markets...

[–] TankovayaDiviziya 48 points 3 days ago (1 children)

One could say the same about the Liberal Revolution of 1848. It failed, and yet it took many years before much of the liberal and progressive values became culturally ingrained.

"The arc of moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice."- Martin Luther King Jr

Good or bad, that's why any ideas never die. That's why the powers-that-be love to censor.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The conclusion: as soon as a country is destabilized, you can bet your ass the US is going to come in and fuck up any democratic progress in their own favor.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 days ago (1 children)
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[–] Keeponstalin 26 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Tunesia is the only one with a success story where the mass protests were successful in creating reform (new president and constitution). In the other countries, the mass protests for reform were violently suppressed, and still are in the present day.

Summary of each country

What has happened since the so-called Arab Spring? Eight years later, human rights are under attack across the region. Hundreds of thousands of people, many of them children, have been killed during armed conflicts that continue to rage in Syria, Libya, and Yemen. The Syrian conflict has created the largest refugee crisis of the twenty-first century, humanitarian crisis.

Tunisia is the only relative success story. It has a new constitution, some justice for past crimes, but human rights are still under attack.

In Egypt, peaceful activists, critics of the government, and many others remain in jail. Torture and other ill treatment are rife. Hundreds have been sentenced to death and tens of thousands put behind bars for protesting or for their alleged links to political opposition. However, we saw that the current president was just authorized to stay in power until 2034.

In Bahrain, the authorities are silencing dissent.

Libya has turned into chaos. There are many armed conflicts all across the country, and all sides have committed war crimes and serious human rights abuses.

In Syria, the region’s bloodiest armed conflict emerged in response to the brutal suppression of mass protests by the government. Atrocious crimes are being committed on a massive scale. Half the population has been displaced.

Yemen is an ongoing tragedy, with a Saudi Arabia–led coalition (principally with the United Arab Emirates), but with the US supplying arms, providing refueling and intelligence, and so forth. Here’s an interesting Tucson connection. The Emirates just bought $1.6 billion of arms from Raytheon, so the Tucson economy stays strong. The Saudi Arabia–led coalition air strikes and shelling by Houthi forces have killed more than ten thousand civilians, forty thousand wounded. Ten million are now in jeopardy of famine and disease. Some of the attacks amount to war crimes.

The Arab Spring, which started out as an enormously hopeful movement for progressive change, has now largely been subjected to brutal repression and pushback from the forces of the status quo ante. It represents a poignant and tragic example of social struggle.

  • Consequences of Capitalism - Chapter 6 - Noam Chomsky and Marv Waterstone
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[–] [email protected] 51 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (16 children)

There's a good retrospective on the mass protest movements of the 2010s called If We Burn. The main takeaway I got was that leaderlessness and horizonalism do not work.

If you don't pick your leaders, they will pick themselves.

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[–] finitebanjo 24 points 3 days ago

It was never not being weaponized, and never stopped being a place to organize.

[–] surph_ninja 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

How has it been weaponized against democracy?

It’s still the best way to get info not filtered by MSM. There’s a reason politicians in both parties are calling for increased social media censorship.

[–] Saryn 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

Its much more complicated than that, and yes contemporart information sources (i.e., the internet) have absolutely been weaponized by both state (Russia should come to mind) and non-state (say, ISIL, energy companies, etc) actors, as has been detailed in tens of thousands of pages of research and independent analysis focused on digital forensics. And its not just about the content (i.e., the ideological, cognitive apsects). It's also about control of the infrastructure - think media capture by oligarchs such as Musk or the reverse enginering of social media algorithms by countries like Russia to reach as many people as possible.

I would argue it's disingenuous to equate the activities of the two American parties in this field. If you were to take a comprehensive look at what they've been doing, there is a clear difference in their approach and intent. Where the Democratic Party wants to curtail the influence of foreign authoritarian states and local oligarchs by limiting their ability to spread disinformation, Republicans have been actively undermining these efforts, including by going after US agencies (such as the GEC) and independent researchers at NGOs. Why? Because these agencies and NGOs are exposing their lies and labeling their messages as misleading and dangerous. They are also exposing how aligned the Republics are with foreign authoritarian states.

Granted, I'm a bit biased. I'm one of those researchers. And dealing with SLAPPs and other measures by Republicans and their proxies has been undermining information integrity significantly in the last two years, within and without the US.

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[–] AnUnusualRelic 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Oh so you like the Internet eh?

[–] Valmond 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's just a fad, it'll go away.

[–] AnUnusualRelic 2 points 1 day ago

I remember when people used to tell me that.

[–] LovableSidekick 3 points 2 days ago

Arab Autumn

[–] Ranta 12 points 2 days ago

It's almost like They realized something...

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago

amazing how at the drop of a hat the mainstream media will shill for de-anonymizing trolls when someone makes fun of a corrupt politician

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