this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024
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A Boring Dystopia

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[–] seaQueue 59 points 6 days ago
[–] solrize 44 points 6 days ago (2 children)

No way to prevent this, says only party where this regularly happens.

[–] skeezix 25 points 6 days ago

No will to prevent this. The DNC would like you to quietly believe that they are a progressive party. They wear the costume (and have a few truly progressive players), but the party is not as progressive as they’d have you believe. Their elite are beholden to lobbying, grift, and self enrichment just like the republicans. Progressive democratic socialist policies always hurt someone’s profits, so the DNC can’t move too far left. They can’t move too far right either without alienating their base. So they attempt to do very little.

This is why they purposely fucked Bernie out of his nomination.

[–] MajinBlayze 1 points 5 days ago

That's funny, but I don't think it's quite right.

Establishment parties across the EU and OECD countries (mostly liberal democracies) all had their incumbent parties lose ground in 2024, for the first time in history.

Graph of EU/OECD election changes

People know they want something to change, but right now it's only the fascists promising to do so.

[–] DontRedditMyLemmy 40 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The Democratic party isn't a viable alternative to the Republican party. They're too friendly to corporations, not doing enough to show teeth or enthusiasm, and definitely not explaining why Republicans are the worst option. Let's assume that D is politically bankrupt after taking right wing medias beating for the last 40 years. SO HOW DO WE FIND A NEW ALTERNATIVE TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY? And how do we get everyone to migrate?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago (2 children)

First get rid of FPTP.

THEN and only then can we form a new progressive party.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (7 children)

Or, and hear me out - stop desperately trying to reform an unreformable system and ignoring that it is working exactly as it was designed to, abolish it, and build something better instead.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I think we'd all love to. The constitution is fundamentally broken and should be completely rewritten. It's founded on ideas that just aren't true now, if they ever were. The idea that the states are more like countries than counties is the biggest one. The idea that we can and should protect ourselves from the tyrrany of the majority by having independent branches of government and countless ways to stop and stall things is another huge one.

But here's the biggest problem, not enough of the country agrees that the system is broken, and even smaller portion of those who do can agree on how it's broken or what changes to make. So no, we can't just abolish it. We can either (1) fix it enough to get to the point that we may be able to have the stability it would require to safely transition to a new constitution or (2) see things get so bad that enough of the country is on board for revolution. Both options suck, but option (2) has a pretty bad record compared to option (1) in my view.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

And if neither party supports that reform, do we just keep voting Democrat until the end of time?

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Unlike prior revolutions in which the new regime was established after the old, we should write a new constitution in advance.

Start with a framework. Maybe take the Constitution of the United States and make some no-brainer changes (getting rid of the EC, say. Or election by ranked choice)

And then, we develop it. Run clauses by legal scholars, hold town halls. Get it on the web. Debate about the benefits of competing clause versions.

So that when there is a movement, a resistance (and there will be) an organized rebellion, the people will not just have an enemy to fight against but something to fight for.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Maybe take the Constitution of the United States and make some no-brainer changes

Or take one that already works well for centuries. Scandinavian countries, Austria, Swiss, are generally good at this.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

Sure!

So my original fantasy (during the Obama era) was to create what would start as an wiki of all^†^ the constitutions of all nations of the world, translated to all^†^ languages.

Then there'd be a workshop section where amateur legal experts could take known clauses and tweak them so that they'd be better (say, revising all the US federal elections so that they're ranked choice, and fixing all the instances of two-party procedure so that they accommodate any number of parties. Or, for another example, fixing UK Parliament so that it is appointed by sortition from all qualifying citizens.)

The point of all this when the world isn't on the precipice of despair is twofold:

1) It provides a resource for new societies to look at what other constitutions look like, so they can pull from what works, which means that coups d'etat are more likely to result in something other than a provisional dictatorship that accidentally becomes permanent. Because we have new states rising from the ashes of the old frequently. And...

2) It provides a place to crowdsource amendments to constitutions already in place (or to change current non-foundational ordinances). Right now, here in the US, we depend on our legislators to write laws, and they rely on their staffers who often have corporate allegiances, when they don't receive bill text directly from corporate or special interest lobbyists directly. So it would create a place for the public to talk about it and have its own input.

Such a website was a no-brainer to me, so much so that I had assumed that it existed somewhere online. But no, no-one has made it.

I don't have the skill it takes to start what might eventually become a sizeable project with lots of political enemies, like Wikipedia or Wikileaks. But maybe here on Lemmy creating an interested team would be easier.

For now it's a pie-in-the-sky idea, as I wouldn't have any idea how to begin it.

† This is the internet definition of all, id est as many as we could crowdsource.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 days ago (2 children)

The DNC often deals with this, because the nature of federal politics in the US requires them to appeal to the general public, which has left-leaning interests, and then businesses and oligarchs for sponsorship which have right-leaning interests.

Remember they made the Democratic Party primaries less democratic after Carter was elected because he was too left wing. And they've only been able to nominate neoliberals since.

So no, those of us on the left have no candidates. And since its a two-party FPTP system, we only can vote against the worse popular guy by voting for the slightly better other popular guy.

In this case, assuming the election went down as it appeared, the majority of the US voted for the racist autocratic dictator rather than another neolib. (Granted, Biden went further left than we expected and I had hope Harris would as well. Walz certainly seems to understand the US public, but none of them are without ties to industrial interests. We'd still only be able to expect a couple of scraps.)

What this tells me is that most Americans don't get it. They think they have a choice. And now they're going to endure the consequences of their folly.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

Remember they made the Democratic Party primaries less democratic after Carter was elected because he was too left wing. And they’ve only been able to nominate neoliberals since.

It's amazing that a naval officer/peanut entrepreneur/devout Christian was "too left wing", especially since he got beat by a Hollywood union boss from California.

Mind you, we just had an anti-elite rebellion led by a thrice-divorced billionaire failson of a New York City real estate magnate.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What would it look like if they "got it"? They'd still have chosen one or the other, I don't know how I'd distinguish between this outcome that indicates they don't get it and one where they apparently do.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

As best as we understand the motivation of the constituency, they felt the economy was bad under Biden, that immigrants were increasing crime, weighing down our social programs and taking our jobs, and that Trump will fix everything with his concept of a plan.

In reality, Biden was dealing with the after-effects of Trump's economy, plus the COVID-19 epidemic, and while prices did increase, the US has recovered better than any other nation, so he can't really be faulted on the economy, especially after Trump's initial response to the epidemic of pretending like it's not already in the community, and politicizing mitigation efforts like masks and social distancing.

Then, immigrants are taking jobs that Americans don't want, are paying taxes, and commit fewer crimes than the general population. So all of our concerns about immigrants are demonstrably false.

And if Trump's previous methods of fixing the United States is consistent, then he's only going to break things. An example would be his efforts to repeal the ACA, which turned into the skinny repeal that is, killing the program without a replacement, because making a better healthcare program was too hard for the GOP.

I remember all this, and it's troubling the short memories of the American electorate. It's not the first time, though. They should have remember not just how bad it was under George W. Bush, but how awful Republicans became during that time. Street Republicans were outwardly endorsing torture and suggesting that waterboarding wasn't really torture. It's like they lost all moral direction or even basic sense in favor of party loyalty.

Now as more votes are processed, and as we're able to see how demographics voted, our review of the 2024 election might change, but right now it looks like huge chunks of the electorate are just forgetful and completely daft. More likely they're just racist and bigoted more than they care about their own self interests.

If they got it they'd know that putting a Democrat in office and then pressuring them can get results, which is how we ended DADT and DoMA. The GOP doesn't care what the public thinks.

It's worth tapping the quote (accredited) from Linden Baines Johnson:

I'll tell you what's at the bottom of it. If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

Biden was the first president to turn away from neoliberalism this century and the fact that no one really recognized that is alarming.

[–] somethingsomethingidk 12 points 6 days ago (3 children)

This is a satirical source. Haven't seen one comment that didn't take it seriously.

[–] Clbull 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Bernie Sanders reflected on it stating that it was the Democrats failing the working class that won Trump the election, and people in the Democratic Party denounced him for it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

They already learned nothing from 2016. If they didn't learn before why would you believe they've learned this time. It's a situation where satire runs too close to reality so of course people take it seriously. In fact the "she didn't get elected because she's black/woman" reasoning already shows they don't plan to learn from this time either. The answer to dems losing isn't "we weren't racist/sexist enough".

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[–] kat_angstrom 16 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

It's The Onion all the way down

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 days ago

Democrats are afraid of there not being elections in 2028. What they should be afraid of is the DNC moving even further right as they are planning to do right now.

[–] vanontom 14 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

I'm kind of amazed that more politicians don't just promise to try to implement all the highest polling ideas. (Spoiler: Most are progressive and socialist policies.) Especially presidential candidates running against potentially catastrophic fascists.

[–] inv3r510n 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Because they exist to protect their corporate benefactors and popular policies don’t allow for that

[–] vanontom 2 points 6 days ago (7 children)

And why do they serve them: All points back to the insane amount of money necessary to run a campaign (esp. at higher levels, vs billionaires, etc).

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

It all depends on what our biggest corporate donors want

Saying the silent part loud.

[–] TwoBeeSan 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I love the hard times. All yall ate the onion lol

"Rest assured we will be doing everything short of interpreting that sound into words and responding to those words in any way shape or form.”

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago

Wait, is this satire? I only noticed 3/4 through the article.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The Hard Times is a very real punk news site that you should not question. Just absorb the information as truth and move on. The historic satire site was founded in December 1976. It’s made by a group of punk and hardcore kids from all the different sub-genres of the DIY hardcore scene. Any resemblance to actual persons or band names is coincidental.

https://thehardtimes.net/about/

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

We will find out when they pick a house and senate minority. If they are older that 38 in the house and 45 in the senate, then they learned nothing.

[–] SupraMario 10 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (5 children)

I'm surprised at how many Gen z kids are trump fanatics, I didn't expect the level of support from that base. So I don't know how much age is in play here now.

[–] qwertilliopasd 13 points 6 days ago

Future prospects for those kids aren't great and there are right-wing grifters targeting the disenfranchised youth. Fascism is a tempting ideology for those who are scared about the future and feel they deserve better opportunities in life. Also being an edgy teen is a right of passage. I've also seen that many many gen z kids care about Palestine, and Kamala told them to fuck off so they did. The ones that see a genocide and don't care tend to lean right.

If the democrats could show a plan to fight climate change, reduce wealth inequality, and stop arming genocide, youth support would slam left like a screen door in the wind. With a broad brush, the older members of the caucus don't see that or don't care.

[–] krashmo 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Young men in particular are annoyed with all the "wokeness" and to be honest, so am I. Not because I disagree with what's being said but because Democrats let Republicans control the narrative every time they engage in it. Republicans bitch about trans people in boxing matches and instead of redirecting to an actually important topic like healthcare or income inequality they just start debating about testosterone levels and in so doing legitimize the complaint.

I've got nothing against trans boxers but let's have some perspective. I doubt anyone reading this even knows a trans boxer. Stop getting lost in the weeds and focus on the stuff that matters to everyone. That trans boxer is having trouble affording their healthcare too. Let's deal with that first. I bet you'll find people willing to listen if you'll talk about stuff that actually makes a difference in their lives.

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[–] MutilationWave 3 points 6 days ago

My nephew who is 21 explained horseshoe theory to me a few months ago. He wouldn't listen to why it was bullshit. He has grown up in a right wing government and he likes the "center". I doubt he voted but if he did it would be for Trump.

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