this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 184 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Girlfriend works in childcare and I work in elder care. Fuck me double

[–] [email protected] 131 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Elder care wealth is extracted using service companies as services. E.g. they hire their for-profit cleaning service for astronomical money while their non-profit elderly care facility claims to make no profits. Since the service takes the money and the elder care facility is paying for a known cost (cleaning, supplies, whatever) then they can still claim to be non-profit. The non-profit pays no taxes so they aren't doubly taxed either.

This is a widely known scheme in the north east, combined with the fact that when it's inspection time to see staff levels the business owners mysteriously are given a heads up before they show up so they can make sure just enough staff is there. They routinely understaff these facilities because each person there is just another wage to pay.

Bottom line, for profit healthcare is appalling and corruption is everywhere.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 month ago

This scheme is just an example of how entire economy operates.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago (1 children)

How do you know all of this?

Ah, checks out.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Hey there and solidarity from the disability care world. We need a damn union, I heard like 25% of the millenials are in human care positions, so I'm hoping we do something soon, we got the people for it.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 month ago

I would join an care workers union in a heartbeat

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[–] [email protected] 162 points 1 month ago (3 children)

It seems that they do understand this economy. It's capitalism.

[–] RememberTheApollo_ 153 points 1 month ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Yeah baby!!

Line goes up, grandpa and kiddo can just go to the crappier nursing home and daycare and you can work a little harder can't you!?

Now if you'll excuse me, but I've got some senators dicks to suck

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago

Now if you’ll excuse me, but I’ve got some senators dicks to suck

You got it backwards...

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago (3 children)
[–] Burn_The_Right 23 points 1 month ago (5 children)

You have been permanently banned from c/Conservative.

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[–] [email protected] 130 points 1 month ago (2 children)

It's as if theres some parasitic force siphoning all those dollars somewhere . . . oh right, there is.

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[–] [email protected] 107 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Don't worry because you are free to exploit people as well! Oh, you're not exploiting, fucking over, and scamming literally every human being you meet? What's wrong with you. Maybe you're just not smart enough to screw people over. /$

[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 month ago

Wow, that "/$" is art. Congratulations.

/Fully sincere.

[–] aesthelete 85 points 1 month ago

It's almost like there's greedy fatcats in every industry stuffing all of the profits down their fat gullets while everyone else barely holds off starvation.

[–] Nuke_the_whales 84 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I used to work as a building superintendent in a condo. I did the math and the corporation brought in around half a million a month in maintenance fees and the operating costs aren't anywhere that high. I used to get paid minimum wage. I did the math on the amount of units in comparison to my paycheck. It was something like a dollar per unit was going towards my pay. So whenever anyone acted like I should bend over backwards for them, I remembered that their particular issues and complaints were only worth $1 to me

In the condo and building maintenance industry, the less you do the more you make, the super and cleaners do everything and get paid shit, the manager and offsite manager's boss make a fortune

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

So whenever anyone acted like I should bend over backwards for them

In theory, there should have been a dozen of you with what they were paying. That's something they failed to understand (or refused to understand) as tenants. It is - at some level - something they needed to be made more aware of.

Renters can and do unionize. And when both renters and apartment workers realize they share economic interests, they can exert a ton of leverage over a building that has effectively been abandoned by its official title holder.

the super and cleaners do everything and get paid shit, the manager and offsite manager’s boss make a fortune

It's all a pyramid scheme.

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Worker and Consumer Cooperatives should be the only way to form a business. Fuck external and unequal capital ownership by shareholders.

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 month ago (5 children)

This is generating the typical anti-capitalist hate, but we should also consider that this is also a reflection on the kinds of unpaid work that women have been doing for generations. The problem isn't necessarily profits or middle-men, it's just that some things are always going to be expensive if people are actually paid for the work they do.

Take daycare. In the US the government says that one adult should care for no more than 3 infants, no more than 4 toddlers and no more than 7 preschoolers.

Take someone working at the US poverty line at about $15,000 per year. That's $1250 per month. For 3 infants that's $415 per month each, for 4 toddlers that's $312 each, for 7 preschoolers that's $180 each. That's the absolute cheapest you could possibly go, where a worker is at the poverty line, and there are no costs for rent, supplies, and also zero profit.

But, as a parent, you probably don't want the absolute lowest "bidder" to take care of your kids. You probably want someone who's good with kids, kind, gentle, patient, etc. So, let's not even go all the way up to the lowest possible teacher's salary of $34,041 in Montana. Let's say the daycare worker is great with kids, but doesn't have the teaching background to get even the least well paying teaching job available in the country. Let's say you'd be willing to have someone who makes $24,000 per year for easy math. That's a wage where the caregiver is going to struggle to make ends meet in most of the country, but maybe it's worth it for them because they like working with kids. That's $2000 per month. For infants it's $667 per month each or $8000 per year, toddlers it's $500 per month each or $6000 per year. preschoolers it's $285 per month each or about $3500 per year.

Again, this is before you consider any profits. That's money straight from the parents to the caregiver's salary. That's before you consider rent, before supplies, before snacks, etc. That's no reading nook, no library, no arts and crafts, that's presumably just using someone's living room.

Now, if the daycare worker is going to be able to take sick days or vacations, you'll need to pay part of another person's salary who will cover. So instead of 1 person watching 7 preschoolers, you have 10 people watching 70 preschoolers plus 1 who rotates in to cover when the main workers are unavailable, so make that another 10%. We're up to almost $9k per year for an infant, and we still don't have cribs, baby food or a cent in profit, and we have a worker who is barely scraping by.

The point is, any job that involves a lot of human supervision is going to be very expensive. Caring for babies and old or sick people involves a lot of human supervision. Much of this work used to be done by women who didn't work outside the home. Now that women are working outside the home, even when they have young children, we're realizing how expensive it is. None of what I've talked about involves capitalism or profits, it's just purely paying someone to do child-care work while the woman does other work.

But, this is where the capitalism / socialism aspect comes in. If we want women to be able to work outside the home, and we also want kids to be something that isn't financially ruinous, society needs to help pay for those things. In a purely capitalist, no socialism, winner-take-all world, having kids is a major liability. Having an option to not have kids is great, but in the long term society is doomed if nobody is willing to have kids anymore.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This is a very interesting thing to point out, but I believe you are not realising how intrinsically tied the generations of women unpaid work is to the economic system.

"mainstream economic theory is obsessed with the productivity of waged labour while skipping right over the unpaid work that makes it all possible, as feminist economists have made clear for decades. That work is known by many names: unpaid caring work, the reproductive economy, the love economy, the second economy."

"the household provision of care is essential for human well-being, and productivity in the paid economy depends directly upon [the core economy]. It matters because when – in the name of austerity and public-sector savings – governments cut budgets for children’s daycare centres, community services, parental leave and youth clubs, the need for care-giving doesn’t disappear: it just gets pushed back into the home. The pressure, particularly on women’s time, can force them out of work and increase social stress and vulnerability. That undermines both well-being and women’s empowerment, with multiple knock-on effects for society and the economy alike."

Doughnut economics - Kate Raworth

Capitalism thrived and keeps thriving in concentrating capital because it is able to get away with not accounting for the value it extracts. This is true for this example of unpaid labour as well as for natural resources extraction, ecosystem damage etc(we are beginning to realize this with carbon tax). That's the cornerstone of the system function, not just a side effect. The unpaid labour may be starting to be dealt with in the West, but this just means it is aggressively outsourced in third world countries. Without these so-called economic externalities there is no profit (or extremely little of it).

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hospitals will ruin your life but most of the staff lives paycheck to paycheck.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago (6 children)

Not just the staff either, providers are making significantly less every year.

I work in orthopedics and rehabilitation, and even though the cost of school, licensing, and insurance has skyrocketed. My field is basically being paid the same amount they were 30 years ago, and that's not even accounting for inflation.

In some ways it's nice, as medicine doesn't attract people who are just in it for the money any longer. But, hospital organizations now know that providers are basically locked in a sunk cost fallacy to pay back their loans, and on top of that they have a calling for it.

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 month ago (7 children)

If you went 100 years back in time and told people that school teachers would be dead broke despite making the best financial decisions possible and be nearly homeless despite working long hours they would be fucking shocked.

Being a school teacher, even one for elementary school kids, in the late 19th century was not only a respectable profession, but also decently paid. I think Horrible Histories said that the average school teacher in the 1880s and 1890s in the UK made around 60 pounds sterling a year, which was a fairly decent wage at the time.

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[–] BaldManGoomba 49 points 1 month ago

Admin and c-suite taking huge salaries and sucking companies, schools and agencies dry.

[–] FreakinSteve 42 points 1 month ago

Private equity, shareholders. No publicly traded business is in the business of providing service and goods of value.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago (8 children)

I do volunteer office work for a non-profit childcare center, and have looked at their budget and their books. It's basically impossible to efficiently do at the scale of a single center in a high cost of living city.

If you're paying teachers an average of $30/hour and maintaining a ratio of 4 kids to 1 teacher at all times, and covering 50 hours per week of operational time (for example, operational hours between 8am and 6pm 5 days per week), and you actually have enough staff to not pay overtime, that's $1500/week in wages per teacher, or $375/week per student. Throw in taxes, healthcare, paid vacation, and staffing in redundancy so that you can handle illness and the unexpected, and each kid might be at $400-450/week in labor costs of the direct work of watching and teaching the kids.

But in reality, childcare is in crisis now because a qualified worker could probably get a higher paying nanny job for 1 or 2 kids at a time, so there's a severe shortage of workers even at that $30/hour average wage. And so there needs to be overtime, and that creeps up to $450-500/week for workers.

And then you have the ongoing overhead: rent, utilities, furniture/equipment, toys, books, other supplies, etc. Most centers provide food, and have to contract out for that, too.

And then there's the cost of management. Someone needs to run the place, there might need to be something like a receptionist, and these centers often have to contract out their bookkeeping, electronic records, or even basics like running a website. Most have extra features like electronic reports and maybe even pictures/video for parents, and that costs money, too.

So even on the non-profit side, without a profit motive or distributions to shareholders, the industry as a whole has a mismatch between the prices parents are able to pay versus the bare minimum acceptable cost of providing that service. (In fact, the nonprofit I'm thinking of has donations coming in to cover things like tuition assistance for parents who need it, or a lot of the supplies, and volunteers like me who can provide specialized labor for no cost to the center.)

Childcare should be subsidized by the government, and there's basically no way this industry can continue to exist based purely on revenues from parents alone. Otherwise the industry will enter a death spiral and the number of people simply unable to afford kids will grow out of control.

[–] TexasDrunk 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Or, hear me out here, fix the economy so that people don't need between 2 and 3 incomes per household to survive.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Stock Markets getting those record highs tho. If only people could get paid in shares of the companies that own their labor, but if that happened they'd actually have to answer to the workers and we simply can't have that in muh free markets

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[–] Nuke_the_whales 27 points 1 month ago (9 children)
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[–] LANIK2000 27 points 1 month ago

Oh my, reminds me of a saying we used to have back under soviet occupation. Translated it would be "If you aren't stealing, you're stealing from your family.". Americans are at the point where that's the world they live in, but they haven't yet developed the depressing worldview of the average soviet citizen. Oof...

[–] jordanlund 25 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

True. I used to teach at a technical school, oh, a quarter century ago now. Seats were something like $500 per person, and I would have a class of 14 to 18 students. So $7,000 to $9,000 worth of tuition per day.

I was making $18 an hour, IIRC? $144 a day?

OH! AND I had to wear a suit and tie every day. So in addition to the usual expenses, there were also drycleaning bills.

After 9/11 class size shrunk to 2-3 people a day and the school went out of business.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago

Yeah, but if the people actually contributing the work and services to make the business any money at all, what would all the executives do for a living. Why is nobody thinking of them?? /s

Seriously though, it's one big legalised pyramid scheme - all the people doing the hard labour that actually make the world go round get paid the least while some guys get paid stupid money to sit in a board room and talk about strategies.

[–] wpb 20 points 1 month ago (6 children)

Capitalism combined with markets with inelastic demand is a lot of fun. But communism bad because tankies or whatever.

[–] theluckyone 21 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Unchecked greed is bad for society, capitalist or communist.

People are the problem. If we could only get rid of the people. /sarcasm

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Corpos have figured out the things people actually need and are gouging

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[–] blanketswithsmallpox 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The internet has a serious issue with managers, upper management, and even landlords nowadays. It's so weird to see people slip back into blaming anyone but the real grifters who provide no benefit but take a dollar for no real benefit, or the wage inequality with CSuites. Even people here are falling back into blaming people in their own wage bracket rather than looking at people who provide nothing or paid too much.

As someone who's worked the peon doing the shit to management, so much of the issue is rooted in insurance and government mandated oversight.

People love to hate on their manager making $20,000-40,000 more than them, but they're basically the same as you to everyone grifting or the 1%. Quit blaming them for living in a society that both WANTS and REQUIRES massive oversight.

Running a business ethically takes far more money than anyone wants to admit.

Running a business while making sure you follow all government regulations, codes, is insurable, and is cost efficient is even harder.

First, get rid of for profit insurance. They should all work as collectives.

Get rid of for profit healthcare and go single payer. Remove middlemen who provide no benefit. Quit overpaying shit like salesmen because they're a clear tick that shows more $$$$ and pay people nicely. A housekeeper making $40,000 shouldn't be $50,000 away from their manager and shouldn't be $400,000 or more away from their President. Quit overvaluing and paying a rich person to what amounts to having to have someone dedicated to sucking up to other rich people to stay alive.

Understand that the stock market only works with infinite growth. You will need to save up exactly what you plan to use in retirement without the magic of it or compounding interest and redistribute the wealth through unionizing, and collective bargaining.

Understand that all of it takes someone to lead and do it that will need to be paid as well. People want to live their lives happily, not sacrifice themselves and their life out of some noble goodness of their heart. Pay them appropriately and understand that if you're in these positions, you shouldn't be paid double what other people make just because you do important work. We all do.

Remember that it takes more people to run anything that we like to admit, and that often these regulations are there for a reason. Find the real fat, and cut it while you can.

Seriously though, blame for profit businesses that should just be government run if they're a requirement. Insurance/public health, safety/audit oversight, infrastructure, utilities, public health.

Push for cooperatives for things that can be more privatized but get sketchy when it's all government or full on for profit, like private land ownership, private schools, banking to credit unions.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago

they want the peasant class to remain desperate and buried in debt, so they're forced to take shitty jobs with shitty pay just to get by

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