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Tens of thousands are dying on the disability wait list (www.motherjones.com)

submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/news

35 comments fedilink hide all child comments

In the twelve-month stretch from October 2022 through September 2023, 30,000 people died while waiting for federal disability determinations, according to Social Security Commissioner Martin O’Malley. Martha asked Harris what she would do as president for people, like herself, who are waiting for disability decisions while in desperate need of health insurance.

Delays in those decisions, driven in part by understaffing and a Covid-related rise in disability rates, have driven the typical wait time from four months in 2019 to seven months today, often coupled with the need to appeal an initial rejection, which can take years. The processing times represent a mounting crisis for the more than 1 million Americans who apply for disability in a given year.

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

The entire disability system in the USA is built to hurt people, top to bottom. It forces people to live in perpetual poverty and often struggle to afford the help they need for their disabilities. They can't get married without their benefits being cut, because now they have family who is expected to care for them.

This is just another symptom of a system designed to prevent as many people from collecting benefits as possible. If someone dies while waiting, that's no money that needs to be paid out. It's a "win" in terms of the budget, because it's reducing costs by denying benefits.

The USA is truly run by fucking vultures, and while the Republican party is responsible for most of the horrific messes, there are a not-insignificant number of congresspeople who are "Democrats" but may as well be Republican, like Joe Manchin.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

It really pisses me off that we treat people like this. I wish this country actually believed everyone is entitled to dignity and worked to provide it along with a basic standard of living. We easily could. But we don’t because billionaires need their tax cuts and corporations need their handouts.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

Dignity isn't profitable, that's the basic problem.

[–] meeeeetch 12 points 2 months ago

The Republican Party project is to make sure things get worse, and the 'Responsible Moderate Democrats' make sure things don't get better.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

are "Democrats" but may as well be Republican, like Joe Manchin.

IIRC, Manchin previously announced that he isn't going to run again.

If he weren't fairly close to Republican positions, he probably wouldn't even be in office now; during the time that he was in politics, West Virginia shifted from being a very blue state to being a very red state. I'd argue that that's mostly a function of party realignment than changes inside West Virginia, but it doesn't matter much from the standpoint of a politician's electoral viability, as the brand still has an impact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Manchin

As of 2024, Manchin represents what is by a significant margin the most Republican-leaning constituency of any Democrat or independent in Congress.

Manchin has called himself a "centrist, moderate, conservative Democrat" and is generally regarded as the Senate Democratic caucus' most conservative member.

Hmm. Apparently -- hadn't heard of this until reading this -- he's also no longer a Democrat, re-registered as an independent. The brand probably became too much of a political liability.

He became the state's senior U.S. senator when Jay Rockefeller left office in 2015 and was West Virginia's only congressional Democrat until 2024, when he registered as an independent.

EDIT: And it's not just that all West Virginia's federal representatives except him are Republican. Here's the current state Senate and House composition, to give an idea, red showing Republican and blue Democrat. Not easy to be elected as a Democrat in West Virginia in 2024.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Legislature

EDIT2: Yeah, he announced back in 2023 that he's not seeking re-election.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

So a bit more info on this ... if you look up the average of the demographic that tries to game a system it usually sits somewhere between 2-5%. Unfortunately the powers that be have decided that even tho 95-98% of people follow the rules, everyone has to be vetted (and often denied) so the 'bad' ones can be filtered out.

Untold b/trillions are spent doing this, far surpassing what it would cost to just have basic vetting where people in need would be able to access funds/services within 30 days.

Edit to add -- This is ONLY good for individuals. All corporate entities should be held to a minimum wait of 6 months to be completely vetted.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago

Reminds me of.. I want to say Florida requiring drug tests for welfare. They probably spent orders of magnitude more than they saved.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago

This is one reason im a basic income, universal healthcare, etc person. I have found the beuracracy that is put in place can usually be navigated by the gamers because that is what they do but it blocks the folk that could use the help and if they got it sometimes can be productive and even pull themselves out of the situation.

[–] Etterra 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's because our government, from top to bottom, has a punishment-based attitude when it comes to any and all violations of any rules or laws. And instead of precision strikes, they use flamethrowers.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Problem is the rules aren't enforced on everyone. Just us peons face the full extent of them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

This usually bears out in large workplaces too, most of the employee mistakes are genuine, about 5% are deliberately done by psychopaths. I mean real mistakes like HIPAA violations, not clocking in late from lunch.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yup. Afaik those numbers run across the board, although I have seen an insanely low number for one Ontario social program a few years back (like 0.68% found to be scamming).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'd be interested in seeing that study or report. I wonder if they identified likely factors.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Sorry, I can't even remember what kind of program it was for. My ADHD just picked up on the number and logged it into my brain without a reference point.

Gimme a bit and I'll see if I can find it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Thank you!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Found one for Employment Insurance in Canada ... works out to less than 1% for 2017-18.

Public accounts documents released this month list more than 104,000 incidents of fraudulent EI claims totalling almost $177 million in the 2017-18 fiscal year.

EI spending between April 2017 and March 2018 topped $19.7 billion. The value of fraudulent claims amounted to less than one per cent of total spending.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/employment-insurance-ei-fraud-1.4876688

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Thats a pretty good figure, I'll have to remember that for when its relevant.

Is there a good way to estimate how many cases of fraud don't get caught?

[–] [email protected] 42 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I managed to get on SSDI after fucking years, before Covid, and guess what, I still can't afford anything beyond roach motel / slum lord housing (which of course have bad water and mold and dust, and because these places don't have a 3x rent as income requirement)...

..., and I can't actually access medical care, as I can't afford a car and public transit is basically non existent, and even if I could, it would take me a year of referrals and tens of thousands of dollars to access the PT care I need.

Its literally 100x easier and less expensive for me to just learn the PT I need to do from reading studies and watching youtube videos from actually qualified people.

If you get on SSDI, if you make more than about 1500 dollars a month, for 9 consecutive months, then your SSDI benefits go away, poof, all gone, until you have 0 income for another 9 months.

During which time you will be evicted and likely die on the streets as a disabled homeless person.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Yet, somehow, (from what I understand, anyway) you're allowed to make money from investments and other type of "non-worked" income while on SSDI. I'm pretty damn sure that $1500 limit is only for worked income. It's almost like it's tailor-made for rich people to be able to function on it (because they already had investments when they became disabled) and to just screw the living hell out of everyone else.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yep!

https://www.disabilitysecrets.com/resources/social-security-disability/ssdi/income-limits-ssdi-benefits

No SSDI Limits on Unearned Income and Assets

A person collecting SSDI can have any amount of assets and any amount of income from investments, interest, or a spouse's income. These are all types of "unearned income." You (and your spouse, if you're married) can have an unlimited amount of unearned income. Unearned income includes:
interest income
dividends
rent from property you don't actively manage
income that your spouse earns
pensions
state disability payments
unemployment benefits, and
cash or gifts from friends and relatives.
Any type of gift, even an expensive gift, doesn't affect SSDI benefits at all. You don't have to report gifts to the SSA as income.

This is the exact and precise opposite of how you'd think it would work if you actually wanted to use policies to nudge the disabled toward finding some gainful employment but always have a backstop in case issues flair up again, and not give out benefits to those who don't actually need them.

But no one cares.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Until Democrats fall out of love with means testing I don’t see this changing quickly or at all, unfortunately. But try getting people to accept that means testing almost always costs more than just making the programs open with few/no strings attached and watch the meltdowns start.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's nothing to do with Democrats in particular.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Republicans aren’t getting rid of means testing and Democratic leadership for the most part doesn’t want to. Also, means testing for welfare was a huge part of Democratic campaigning in the 90s and has been embraced within the party since then.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Any evidence that means testing is popular among the Democratic party these days? The '90s is a long time ago now.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Did you miss the whole “if we did universal student loan forgiveness that means we’d be giving money to millionaires too, so that means we can’t do it at all 😏” song and dance? If you did I envy you because it still pisses me off.

Buttigieg himself used this reasoning in the 2020 primaries, and it’s not like there was a real outcry about it. Getting rid of means testing for anything other than children’s school meals isn’t even on the table.

And as Harris has so succinctly put it, do you think the Democratic Party of today fell out of a coconut tree? It’s the result of policies made by people in the 90s, many of whom are either still in power or have died in office only within the past few years. The policies of the 90s have a direct bearing on the party of today.

I wouldn’t support the handwaving away of it being a long time ago as a reason to overlook the dismantling of welfare for political gain for Democrats any more than I would if Republicans did it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Are you asking whether it's popular among Democrats in washington? I think we can see that by the bills that they bring to the floor, and by the speeches that they make.

Are you asking whether it's popular with Democrat voters? That's a different question.

[–] nandi 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I am medically qualified for disability but instead I have a job and work just enough hours to pay rent because that's easier than jumping through all the hoops to get disability

[–] EmpathicVagrant 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Same. It’s insane some of these limits and stupid amounts of outdated red tape.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

I probably should be as well, but I just don't have the fight left in me anymore.

Maybe someone can explain to me why it's easier to fight for someone else vs ourselves, 'cause it's gd annoying as hell.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

Thankfully(?), I am unlikely to die while on the wait list. I'll just have to suck it up and exacerbate my disability in order to have enough numbers in the computer to prove I'm allowed to exist. Which of course means I'm not really disabled. Why live in poverty when I can die in agony?

[–] acetanilide 6 points 2 months ago

It will always blow my mind that the <$950 people on SSI get every month is somehow supposed to sustain them. I'm lucky that I get SSDI but even though I'm making 1.5x the SSI benefit, I'm still drowning in expenses. And I can't do any work or I risk losing my income. I wish they'd just let me work a couple hours a month with zero risk to being kicked off disability. It would save so much money in their other benefit pots that I do qualify for.

But yay, so glad they're using realistic math to determine an appropriate cost of living adjustment. That 2.5% will go a long way - I could afford the gas to drive to the doctor 2 extra times! Or I could buy 4 bananas! The possibilities are endless.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

cries in Ontario *

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

UK is fucked, too. During/post COVID the Tories were doing messed up shit like setting up appointments for disabled people recieving benefits to prove they were disabled and still needed benefits. They would purposefully set the approval appointments somewhere physically difficult to access for a disabled person. If you showed up, you obviously weren't disabled, because you managed to arrive despite obstacles, and you would be denied benefits. If you failed to show up, you were also denied benefits. It was built to just kick people off the fucking system en masse.

Which isn't even as bad as that they tried to argue during the height of COVID that it was a waste of resources to save the lives of the developmentally disabled. Essentially, they just wanted to pull the plug on those people and give the ventilators to more "suitable" candidates. Fucking sickening.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

That disheveled asshole you had in charge wouldn't be capable of caring if his life depended on it.

The preponderance of shitty world leaders (over the last 40 years or so) is fucking depressing. :/

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Yup. There is little difference in Canada (except for universal healthcare, which is decimated across the board rn).