this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2024
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submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by Lauchs to c/asklemmy
 

Almost everyone agrees there should be more compromises in politics. So I'm curious, how would that play out?

While I love the policy debates and the nuances, most people go for the big issues. So, according to the party platforms/my gut, here's what I'd put as the 3 for each party:

Democrats: Abortion rights, gun control, climate change.

Republicans: Immigration, culture war (say, critical race theory in schools or gender affirming care for minors) , trump gets to be president. (Sorry but it really seems like a cult of personality at this point.)

Anyway, here's the exercise: say the other side was willing to give up on all three of their issues but you had to give up on one of your side's. OR, you can have two of your side's but have to give up on the third.

Just curious to see how this plays out. (You are of course free to name other priorities you think better represent the parties but obviously if you write "making Joe Pesci day a national holiday" as a priority and give it up, that doesn't really count.)

Edit: The consensus seems to be a big no to compromise. Which, fair, I imagine those on the Right feel just as strongly about what they would call baby murdering and replacing American workers etc.

Just kind of sad to see it in action.

But thanks/congrats to those who did try and work through a compromise!

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I don't think the kind of compromise that is necessary is able to be stated in the way you're asking for, because of how values feed into beliefs.

Take abortion rights for example: someone who would describe themselves as "pro-life" may argue something that is effectively saying that murdering babies is never okay. I would be in complete agreement there. As someone who is "pro-choice", the core of my argument is usually some form of "a clump of cells that could become a person does not trump the rights to bodily autonomy that an existing person has". No progress will be made in this discussion unless we can address the fact that the vast majority of abortions are nowhere near "murdering babies". That's where compromise is most likely to happen, in the discussion that arises when trying to reconcile different word views, and coming to speak in mutually intelligible terms.

For example, one area where I and many other abortion advocates have compromised on this front is recognising that the line between "a clump of cells" and "a baby" is pretty blurry. Personally, I don't know where I stand on where the law should stand on that line; in my country, abortions after 24 weeks can only be done in exceptional cases (mother's health at risk, foetal anomalies etc.). I think a time limit like this seems reasonable, but I'm not sure whether at 24 weeks, a foetus is more like a clump of cells, or a baby. I have personally had a very early term abortion, and I'm grateful to have had that opportunity, because I have no idea how I'd feel if I was in that 20-24 weeks range. Acknowledging this uncertainty I feel is part of how compromise works. I would hope that someone on the "other side" of the argument would apply a similar approach to try to understand and entertain my argument wrt bodily autonomy. In a way, this is an easy example, because all the leeway in positions has been explored, and the core issue is something that can't be compromised on (such as how I can't have a productive discussion with people who are actively against women's bodily autonomy, or people who believe that life starts at conception).

An area in which I'm working on trying to compromise on is trying to reshape how I think about farmers and other similar social groups. Farmers are a good example because I am a very left wing, queer, university-educated city-living scientist who has Opinions on the climate, and I'm very socially progressive. To some people, I am the big bad Other, an inherent problem with the world. I don't like this, because certainly I don't see myself as "the problem". I'd actually rather like to be part of the solution, but I won't do that well if I take the easy route of dismissing people like this as just racist, idiotic bigots whose opinions I shouldn't care about. Many of them are bigoted, but if I don't want to mass exterminate people whose views are unacceptable to me, nor be exterminated myself, I need to try to imagine a world where I could break bread with these people. That's a pretty difficult challenge.

PhilosophyTube's video on Judith Butler helped a lot on this actually. I have been realising more and more that the common ground that exists between me and many of my "political enemies" is that we are humans who are scared and struggling, like me. When I feel hopeless, solidarity pulls me through, and thinking in this way makes it easier to feel compassion for people whose anger and bigotry isolates them from this kind of community support: a person can simultaneously be a product of their environment, and responsible for their actions; they can both be a victim of fascist ideology (through becoming isolated, disempowered and stewing in hate), and also an active perpetrator of said hate.

This reframing isn't itself compromise, but hopefully if I continue to work to see what I share with the people I most disagree with, I'll be able to have the kinds of conversations that build compromise. Successful compromise takes a small amount of shared ground and extends that, bit by bit, person by person. That's why I think your question didn't get the answers you were hoping for: by the time things become solidified into political parties and manifesto stances, there isn't much fluidity and ambiguity left to act as space for new, shared understanding.

If you made it to the end of this comment, thanks for bearing with my meandering. If you'd like to read an essay about compromise that's a much better story than my rambles, you might enjoy this article about a beautifully mundane yet improbable compromise helped build the internet. . The whole article is great, but I especially love this part:

"In the beginning, the disagreements seemed insurmountable, and Miller felt disheartened: ‘The first night we thought: This is gonna fail miserably. At first nobody saw eye to eye or trusted each other enough yet to let each other in and try to figure out the art of the possible.’ But as concessions and then agreements were made, people began to feel energised by the creation of a new system, even if imperfect; one piece at a time, their system could bring the content of the web within reach for everyone. As Caplan remembers: ‘By the second day, there was a lot of drinking and all-night working groups. We were running on adrenaline and energy. By the last day, we realised we were making history.’ "

I take heart in the understanding that compromise is messy, and hard to evaluate when you're in the thick of it.

[–] Lauchs 2 points 3 months ago

I think this was really well written and gets at the heart of what actual compromise entails much better than my quick question could possibly do.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Maintaining a capitalism based economy for the time being.

Everything else has gotta happen simultaneously anyways to stick, so it has to happen. But we can figure out how to move away from capitalism after we aren't all so strung along.

[–] steeznson 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Probably towards the centre with a tilt towards liberalism but like both in terms of being socially and economically liberal. Ideal government would let everyone do whatever they wanted to until it interfered with anyone else doing whatever they wanted to do.

[–] Anticorp 1 points 3 months ago

I could see myself being a Libertarian if they didn't say stupid stuff like "the market will regulate corporations". Grow the fuck up. The market is absolutely and completely dominated by the corporations. There is no free market.

PS, the "grow up" comment was aimed at the party, not at you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Apparently in France naming a Prime Minister of the party that won the last elections is a compromise in itself for the President, so I would start with that 😒

[–] Lauchs 1 points 3 months ago

I mean, depends on "won." The far right (RN) had more votes but had fewer seats after Ensemble and the NFP withdrew candidates competing against each other. But then those two parties couldn't work out a Prime Minister who would survive their first No Confidence votez which I think would trigger another election, one in which the RN would be at a substantial advantage...

So on this one, I think Macron actually did compromise by putting in a Right wing PM who is not Far Right and who will mostly be governing with Ensemble/NFP...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Compromise doesn't have to mean giving up on anything. It's more often about finding a middle way solution on an issue that both sides can accept.

This is how I would suggest compromising on each issue without either part giving up on any:

Abortion: Religious people can give up all the rights they want.

Gun control: Ban guns in cities. Allow them in the wilderness.

Climate change: Allow industries to pollute as long as they pay for cleaning it up.

Immigration: The whole thing could be solved by not allowing employers to hire people without their paperwork in order.

Culture wars: The fear is that certain cultures get to control others? Don't allow anyone to force their culture on others.

Trump gets president: Okay, if all power is removed from the position, then he can be the representative of the country. Not a good one but whatever.

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

It is helpful to at least be able to represent your ideological opponents accurately. (Although I understand it is tempting to deliberately misrepresent them)

You're three points for republicans informs me that you spend nearly all of your time within an informational bubble.

[–] Lauchs 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

You mean "your" 3 points. I am not three points.

Anyway, I went to the Republican 2024 platform. There's a lot of fluff but, as evidenced by tonight, their big issue is immigration, which is the first 2 items in the platform.

Then there's generic fluff about inflation, tax cuts for the working class and boosting manufacturing, claims both parties make. (Also about energy but I already included climate change in the Dems column.)

Nonsense about stopping ww3 (yes, a level headed leader like trump is what we need to do that.) Then "stop charging donald for his crimes. Back to immigration. Then random attack on cities, despite urban voters voting Dem. Then generic silliness. Then climate, then culture war etc...

So, what would you say are the two non immigration issues on the Republican side?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So, what would you say are the two non immigration issues on the Republican side?

I can't speak definitively for them, but I could just flip the words around from your 3 Democrats issues:

Abortion rights, gun control

*magic swisharoo noises

  • Gun rights
  • Abortion control
[–] Lauchs 1 points 3 months ago

Sure, same but that kind of defeats the poiny of the whole exercise...

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