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199
Political Violence Makes The Task Of Stopping Trump And Fascism Much Harder (zeteo.com)
submitted 4 months ago by gAlienLifeform to c/politics
75 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20240714210413/https://zeteo.com/p/political-violence-makes-stopping

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[–] lennybird 103 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Please permit me to vent for but a moment.

Enough of this fucking grandstanding.

If I have to hear one more time how this is a somber moment for the country and that this is a tragedy and both sides must make peace, my lord does that dodge the elephant in the room.

I mean, Hello, McFly!? These fuckers are out there engaging in full-throated stochastic terrorist threats on a daily basis. These right-wingers are responsible for the VAST majority of political violence both in present day (that's per the FBI and DOJ) and throughout our fucking history. ProPublica reports these right-wing extremist groups are actively trying to instigate a civil war.

I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the blood of Sandy Hook and Uvalde children fall squarely on the same fuckers whose convention listed, "We Are All Domestic Terrorists." All the trained shooters, security detail, preparedness couldn't stop some dumbass from taking pot-shots at a President... And yet, these people try to argue that MoRE GuNz = Safer Society? Please.

They can go fuck themselves. My concern stops beyond the bystander father who protected his family. Beyond that, I have no more tears to give. While I agree the fight needs won at the ballot, and that we should always use brains over bullets — I just cannot abide by hearing the incessant BoTh SiDeS bullshit as though Democrats are even remotely responsible for the heightened tensions in this. No. This is a response to blatantly clear fascism and a threat to our Democracy as we know it. Godwin himself said that it was okay to compare Trump to Hitler because it's fucking accurate.

[–] Sanctus 24 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Check out the shooter's Facebook. Apparently he is a registered Republican too. Their own base is so torn themselves that someone shot at him for Epstein. They've got their hands over the spout trying to convince us they're in control of the beasts they created as the water soaks their cuffs. They're the ones calling for Death, and it answered.

[–] lennybird 18 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

You can see them really struggling with the cognitive dissonance in this moment.

Side note, but from a Telegraph article, I confess this made me chuckle:

Crooks tried out for his school’s rifle team but failed to make it because he was a “comically bad shot” and made jokes deemed inappropriate with firearms around, two former classmates told The New York Post.

He missed his target by close to 20ft, Jameson Murphy said.

“He tried out…and was such a comically bad shot he was unable to make the team and left after the first day,” he added.

[–] shalafi 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

He clearly improved his game. Not being snarky, that was a fair shot with iron sights.

[–] lennybird 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don't know enough to comment either way, personally. I've heard from military individuals that 150 yard shot is pretty easy and they're trained to peg human targets at 300-400 yards with iron sights with the same caliber. My guess is his adrenaline was going like crazy and he was shaking.

[–] Cypher 8 points 4 months ago

Not a hard shot at a stationary target but if you watch the video Trump turns just a moment before his ear is hit.

Im almost certain his turning to the crowd meant the difference between his ear being clipped and the back of his skull being blown out.

[–] TheDemonBuer 94 points 4 months ago (3 children)

The rules may be different for Democrats and Republicans, but those are the ones by which this game must be played. If Trump is to be defeated, it can only be by honestly adhering to norms and principles that Trump has long since torn down. The Democrats must make the case to voters that the election is a choice between these norms, and permanent rule by an explicitly fascist political party.

If the best way to defeat Trump was to honestly adhere to established political norms, Hillary Clinton would have won the election in 2016. There has hardly been a more established political candidate than Clinton. Yet, she lost. I think a candidate adhering to norms matters more when the people are generally happy with the status quo, but when the people become less satisfied with the status quo, candidates adhering to norms matters less. In fact, I think as people become less satisfied with the status quo, the more they like candidates to deviate from the norm. I mean, if people aren't very satisfied with normal, offering them more normal probably isn't going to get you very far.

[–] Nightwingdragon 33 points 4 months ago (2 children)

if people aren’t very satisfied with normal, offering them more normal probably isn’t going to get you very far.

Here's the thing. You're right, in that Trump got elected because people were unhappy with the status quo. And Trump at least offered something different.

But what we're seeing isn't being "unhappy with the status quo". It's believing in fairy tales. It's believing in conspiracy theories. It's making it up as you go along. Worse, it's wanting to force you to adhere to it too.

I've always said that if you're in an election where your opponent is saying monkeys are flying out of your ass and terrorizing the city, and 51% of the people believe that flying monkey terrorism is a huge problem, you can try appealing to logic and saying there are no flying monkeys coming out of your ass, but you'll be doing it during your concession speech, while your opponent is not only making his victory speech but boasting about the fact that he solved the flying monkey problem on day one.

This is where we are as a society. A sizeable chunk of our society really is listening to Trump's claims about whatever is flying out of Biden's ass, and they have absolutely no appetite for things like truth or logic. Biden is trying desperately to stick to this realm of reality, but it looks more and more like he's going to be making that appeal while watching Trump's inauguration and listening to Trump's supporters cheer on the chaos.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago

Trump got elected because the US electoral system is undemocratic. He doesn't need 51%, not even close.

[–] TheDemonBuer 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

what we're seeing isn't being "unhappy with the status quo". It's believing in fairy tales. It's believing in conspiracy theories.

I think when people become unhappy with the status quo, they are more likely to believe in fairy tales and conspiracy theories, especially if those messages are coming from a seemingly strong leader promising a return to glory. I don't think it would be a terrible thing if Democrats tried harder to look strong and promise that they're going to make America great, only without the conspiracy theories and scapegoats. I think a lot of people really need to hear that message, and if the "good guys" aren't willing to offer that message, someone with less than honorable intentions will.

[–] kava 2 points 4 months ago

Dems promise status quo. America as a whole does not want status quo. Cost of living keeps going up while technology rips apart society in ways we would have never predicted a decade ago.

As long as the only alternative to Trump is status quo, Trump will always win. The DNC's only real concern is maintaining the current power structure. But it's like Blockbuster ignoring the rise of Netflix. The winds have changed. The future is going to be radically different for better and definitely for worse.

[–] gAlienLifeform 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah, there are definitely some parts of this where I disagree with the author, but the very next paragraph makes a good point

A fascist party can only come to power when it attracts multiple constituencies, whose members do not think of themselves as fascists. The fascist leader represents the compromises necessarily involved in democratic politics as unmanly. But fascism needs to appeal to a broader ideology than the mere destruction of democracy. Patriarchy is just such an ideology. By doubling down on traditional gender roles, by the restriction of women’s rights, and by villainizing LGBT, a fascist party attracts religious conservatives. The strutting masculinity of the fascist leader appeals to powerful business elites, who tend to view the world in terms of “winners” and “losers”, and often view their own success as a product of their masculinity (it doesn’t hurt if the leader also vows to promote their interests). Survival in a violent struggle for power is the ultimate badge of honor in the fascist worldview. Violence leans into and supports it.

So long as we're still in an electoral situation, violence is a bad look. I'm not even saying the Democratic party should or can do anything here, I'm just underscoring that this weekend's event~~s~~ has made this election tougher to win.

e; grammar are confusing

[–] TheDemonBuer 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I would like to clarify that I am not in favor of assassination attempts, but I'm just not convinced that simply playing the game by the rules is the most effective method for defeating fascism. That being said, I don't claim to know what is, necessarily. However, it seems to me that, in most cases, defeating fascism has required using at least some violence.

[–] dynamic_generals 3 points 4 months ago

Great point. It took an entire world war that one time.

[–] Guy_Fieris_Hair 1 points 4 months ago

The norms being a problem is why trump exists.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 4 months ago (31 children)

A couple years ago? Sure

Now? We are on the brink. The supreme court is so corrupt that they have given trump immunity for everything he has ever or will ever do. This includes a literal violent fucking insurrection where he attempted to lynch congress and the VPOTUS.

In a world where people gave a shit about any of the above? Yeah, this would be a problem. But Democrats and The Left are hellbent on tearing down their candidate for a multitude of reasons and have consistently refused to do anything that could possibly have prevented the current mess of a supreme court.

Attempted political violence doesn't make stopping trump harder. Yes, it emboldens his base but nobody else is going to feel sympathy and the Democrats were always going to kill their own chances anyway.

[–] gAlienLifeform 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

nobody else is going to feel sympathy

The undecided voter who only pays attention to the news when something "big" is happening doesn't like assassins and think fist pumping after a bullet flies by your head like a cheesy movie scene is super cool.

Beyond that, the rhetoric of violence just kind of validates all the claims about might making right that fascists hold on to anyway, which is probably a bit to esoteric for a lot of people to see but I'm pretty sure it shows dividends that will undermine future efforts at a better society. I won't say violence is never justified (e.g. self defense situations), but just as a political tactic against fascism assassinations are like cutting the head off a hydra.

e;

We are on the brink.

This I emphatically agree with.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago (2 children)

If an "undecided" voter decides to vote for trump because he got shot? They are the dumbest mother fucker in existence and were looking for an excuse to vote for a fascist anyway.

I’m pretty sure it shows dividends that will undermine future efforts at a better society.

That ship has sailed. We are no longer fighting for a better society. We are fighting for a society period.

If the end result is "This nation is fundamentally broken and we need to re-assess the constitution before we engage in full blow civil war... again"? GOOD.

But that self awareness is not going to happen under the fascists who are openly undermining the country and planning to make trump a king.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago

Agreed, however, I think a lot of voters are vying for the title of "dumbest motherfucker in existence" so I will definitely keep fighting tooth and nail to make sure people I know vote and fight against fascism.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Therein lies a massive problem with the US electorate. Be it due to modern media, poorly funded schools, or more probably, both of those things, you're going to need a plurality of the dumbest motherfuckers in existence to vote for you if you want to win just about any election.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Yes. It is The struggle

But if something as trivial as "his ear was too close to a speeding bullet and he bled a bit" wins him a vote? That voter was never going to be YOUR voter.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Failed political violence makes stopping Trump harder.

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[–] SeattleRain 34 points 4 months ago

This kind of moral lecturing is always directed at moderates and the left. Even when it's right wing in fighting. I'm sorry but I'm not laying down my life to keep people that constantly say I should be dead or in prison, from fighting each other.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago

Oh do fuck off. A republican shot him. What the fuck do you want from us?

[–] RampantParanoia2365 14 points 4 months ago

Guys, everyone be sad for the wonderful human killed that day, who full-heartedly supported a mass-mudering fascist domestic terrorist, who wants four more years to create more fucking misery. I am so sad this former fire chief is dead. He loved his own personal family. 🎻

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago

I don't buy the argument. This doesn't Trump more sympathetic. He doesn't look like a tough guy. He still the same incoherent fuckhead he was eight years ago. Just ask him about gun control and get his incoherent response. Thanks NRA and Republicans for making this assassination attempt easy. Too bad the assassin was incompetent. I guess Nicki Haley or whoever would have replaced DJT would probably have been younger and therefore more capable of attacking Joe's age.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago

A great demonstration of how right-wing violence results in lectures about how to coddle the violence of the right-wing.

No one to the left of fascism was involved. And yet.

[–] Guy_Fieris_Hair 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

It sure woulda got a lot easier if somebody knew how to shoot.

[–] krashmo 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

400 feet is pretty far (yards is 3 times farther but I don't recall which unit of measure they were using). Getting close enough to hit his ear with that weapon, at that distance, and under that kind of pressure is a pretty good shot in my book. I know that isn't exactly what you were getting at but still, the situation is pretty interesting from a ballistics perspective.

[–] shalafi 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Dude jumped on a target of opportunity, cops and Secret Service all around, climbed on a roof and took the shots with iron sights.

I dare anyone to do better.

[–] krashmo 2 points 4 months ago

He did that with irons? That's even more impressive. I just assumed he had some sort of optic

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[–] homesweethomeMrL 2 points 4 months ago

It only makes it harder cause he missed.

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