this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
215 points (97.8% liked)

Bicycles

2899 readers
119 users here now

Welcome to [email protected]

A place to share our love of all things with two wheels and pedals. This is an inclusive, non-judgemental community. All types of cyclists are accepted here; whether you're a commuter, a roadie, a MTB enthusiast, a fixie freak, a crusty xbiking hoarder, in the middle of an epic across-the-world bicycle tour, or any other type of cyclist!


Community Rules


Other cycling-related communities

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

A man who narrowly survived an ebike battery fire that killed his partner and two children says he is tormented by grief and guilt but determined to fight to change the law to avoid similar tragedies.

Scott Peden, 31, was placed in an induced coma for a month after suffering 15% internal burns when he tried to wrestle his burning ebike out of his Cambridge flat last June. He also smashed his heel in three places jumping from his bedroom after the battery exploded.

When he was pushed back by the flames and toxic fumes he called to his partner, Gemma, 31, and children, Lilly, eight, and Oliver, four, to jump from the same bedroom. “She said: ‘I can’t get out.’ That’s the last words I heard. I don’t know what happened,” Peden said.

He added: “Gemma knew I tried to help, but did the kids? Was their last thought ‘where’s Dad?’ I feel so much guilt and fear about what they went through in those last couple of minutes, it hits me every day.”

Peden learned of their fate only when he emerged from the coma in a burns unit in Broomfield hospital in Chelmsford. He says: “They told me Oliver was found in his bedroom. Gemma was found in our bedroom doorway and Lilly was under our beds with the two dogs.” The fire destroyed the family’s council flat and everything in it.

Cambridgeshire police told Peden that his family and the dogs all died from lithium gas poisoning. An inquest into their deaths will take place after police have concluded an investigation. It has so far focused on the previous owners of a secondhand battery that Peden bought online days before it exploded in his hallway.

Gemma, Oliver and Lilly were among 11 people killed in fires caused by ebike batteries in the UK last year, believed to be the highest number in a single year. Coroners, fire officers and campaigners have expressed growing alarm about rising sales of unregulated and potentially lethal batteries.

The number of fires from ebikes and escooters in London more than doubled in two years, from 78 in 2021 to 179 last year, according to figures from the London fire brigade. In the first five months of this year there have already been 66 such fires in the capital.

Peden is backing a campaign by the charity Electrical Safety First (ESF) for a law change to ensure there is independent third-party certification in the sale of such batteries, as there is with other dangerous products such as fireworks.

Speaking from the Cambridge flat where he has been rehoused, Peden said he was an “unlikely poster boy” for the campaign as he was dealing with his own trauma. He said: “I used to dream the whole experience over and over again. The PTSD means that sudden bangs put me in a panic attack.”

But, he added: “Campaigning has given me a sense of purpose. My life has been ruined but I can help save someone else’s.”

At the time of the fire, Peden was working for M&S unloading early-morning delivery trucks. He shared the ebike with a colleague who worked the evening shift. When the battery was stolen he could not afford the £600 it cost for a new one.

After having struggled financially, the family was looking forward to Oliver starting school as Gemma could get a part-time job. He said: “Our lives were just beginning. We were looking forward to finally taking the kids on holiday. And it all got snuffed out in a night.”

Peden has not spoken to Gemma’s family since the funeral and says they are unlikely ever to forgive him. Asked what he would say to them, he said: “I’m sorry, that’s all I can say. Should I have just used a push bike? It’s all my decisions that I have to live with.”

It was not Peden’s fault that the battery was unsafe or that it was so easy to buy online. Picking up his phone, he showed that within seconds he was being targeted with adverts on social media for similar secondhand batteries with no safety warnings or certification.

The Department of Business and Trade said a Whitehall taskforce had been set up to tackle the problem and research had been commissioned to understand the cause of fires in lithium batteries.

Peden is frustrated by the delays. “The longer they take to regulate, the more the bodies will pile up,” he said. He urged the next government to introduce ebike safety laws as soon as it came into office. “If my story doesn’t show the desperate need for a change in the regulation, then I don’t know what will.”

In a campaign video for Electrical Safety First, he said: “We are trusting the government that they are safe, but they are not. They need to be regulated, they need to be checked. Change the rules to save someone’s life.”

Lesley Rudd, ESF’s chief executive, said: “Across the country people are dying because of these fires, and people like Scott are left living with the grief and devastation. The status quo is killing people and ruining lives.”

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Hope that sodium battery powered e-bikes hit the market soon. They'll have lower range, but they don't explode or catch fire like Lithium batteries.

[–] perviouslyiner 72 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Coming just after Project Farm's video about most of the power tool batteries sold on ~~Amazon~~ Ebay being hard-to-detect counterfeits, missing their safety features, and containing unlabelled cells which are also missing their safety features.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] barsquid 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Fucking yikes. Those looked like eBay pages, was there a separate video on Amazon? I know Amazon is shady but hopefully not as shady as those eBay fraudsters.

The packaging looked so similar it'd be nice to know how to determine it is real or not. I guess open the case and check the batteries.

[–] Schmuppes 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Amazon ist just as shady. The additional issue with them is that they pool inventory from their own and from marketplace sellers that they do logistics for. Let's say they source genuine batteries from the OE manufacturer and some marketplace dude will have his stock at the Amazon warehouse, which is counterfeit goods. Chances are then that when you order from Amazon themselves, they pick one of the counterfeit units from the marketplace seller because they're stored in the same shelf and Amazon does the shipping.

I cannot give you good advice on where to purchase original batteries for a good price online, but I know that Amazon should not be your first choice.

[–] perviouslyiner 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

that'll be my lesson about posting videos from memory! updated. The youtube comments did mention Amazon and other shops too.

Yeah, the takeaway did seem to be, at the very least, to check whether the cells inside are branded - although in many cases they were packed in a way that you can't tell without destroying the internal plastic structure.

obviously wouldn't have helped the poor cyclist, who could only afford the non-genuine batteries.

[–] barsquid 2 points 2 weeks ago

Ah, gotcha. I don't quite trust Amazon to do a great job, either. I just know they are official distributors for some of these brands so I wonder if my mistrust is unfounded.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] then_three_more 54 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This is really horrific. But as this was second hand I'm not sure how having "independent third-party certification" in place would help, unless you could either get something you bought certified afterwards, or it was illegal to sell secondhand without said certification documents (but then you still run the risk of forgeries or after purchase alterations).

It points towards a bigger problem to me, that of dodgy imports in the first place. We need

  • Online market places to be jointly and severally liable for anything on their sites. No more shirking responsibility by saying it's on their sellers.

  • Proper import checks (thanks Brexit) to catch stuff that's not up to the existing safety standards.

  • More money put into enforcing existing safety standards in general

  • To work closely with the Chinese government to tackle dangerous products before they're out on the open market.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

In addition: Teach people to put them in storage/garage/basement and not the house or apartment hallway. Not even non-electric bikes. Because even if they ain't the cause of the fire they still hinder egress when you gotta go fast.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Not all homes have a safe place where you can do that. And I even recall one story of a family that built a small shed in their front yard so they could store their bikes—not even for safety, but just the convenience of not needing to awkwardly drag the bikes up and down narrow stairs every dat—and the council forced them to remove it.

Apartments need to be required to have secure bike storage, and houses need to be allowed by right to build small bike sheds.

Edit: it was Ireland, not the UK. I guess because most of the stories about cycling I hear that aren't Australian are from the UK, my memory just lumped all of the British Isles together.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

Fair point.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

Legally mandate bike parking with ebike-compatible outlets at every apartment building.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Online market places to be jointly and severally liable for anything on their sites

This should be something AI can do now. Give it a list of what kinds of ads are not allowed, and ask it if the contents of this ad are acceptable

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You are DAN. DAN stands for Do Advertisements Now...

(This is a joke because an LLM is obviously a terrible tool for this but also because jackass adtech CEOs will instantly reach for an LLM here.)

[–] then_three_more 2 points 2 weeks ago

How they do it doesn't really matter how they do it, just that there's laws in place to make them do it. It's also more than that, if there's people with fake goods on their platforms and they're not doing enough to tackle it they should be fined into oblivion.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

When he was pushed back by the flames and toxic fumes he called to his partner, Gemma, 31, and children, Lilly, eight, and Oliver, four, to jump from the same bedroom. “She said: ‘I can’t get out.’ That’s the last words I heard. I don’t know what happened,” Peden said.

That's fucking awful. I feel those words would haunt me for the rest of my life, which may not be that long if I had to live with so much survivor's guilt.

It has so far focused on the previous owners of a secondhand battery that Peden bought online days before it exploded in his hallway.

Anyone know how EU regulations look like for this?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] ThePyroPython 26 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

So why doesn't he name and shame the brand of ebike he bought?

If it was one of the major cycling brands surely he would.

Was it a dodgy deal on AliExpress or one of these resellers on Facebook/Instagram?

[–] Raiderkev 62 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I'd wager some Chinese brand on Amazon that's sold under 50 different brand names. Good luck chasing them down.

[–] then_three_more 21 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Laws need to change to make it Amazon's problem. They're giving them a platform, so they should be liable for what's sold on that platform.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Saying that it's some chinese brand is super funny. They make like 80% of batteries. I often heat people saying they don't want some chinese led's, they want the good stuff. Do people think there is a guy called Philip who solders led's in his basement in Michigan?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 weeks ago

Well you're correct but some brands actually QC (quality control) their products and others do not. This filters out a lot of issues, just having a real human look everything over

Just off the top of my head I know Apple recently changed a manufacturing facility and they were NOT happy with the quality produced. 50% straight into garbage https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/14/iphone-casings-produced-in-india/

[–] Raiderkev 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Obviously, damn near everything is made in China, but there's a difference between an item designed by a reputable company and and manufactured in China and one that is made shoddily by a Chinese shell company that's practically untraceable.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

I swear they've stopped even trying to make them sound like legit brand names now. Just an aneurysm at the keyboard and it's good to go.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 2 weeks ago

It was not the ebike, it was a secondhand battery. It might've been an original, but bad battery, it might've been tinkered with by the previous owner, it might've been a Chinese knock-off. I doubt he knows at this point, and it's probably difficult or even impossible to determine from the wreckage.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago

Read the article?

[–] Crashumbc 5 points 2 weeks ago

From what I read in the article it sounds like he couldn't afford an official replacement. And bought a 3rd party (used?) knock off...

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 weeks ago

Laws like this truly are written in blood... And every new invention has the potential to add a little more of both.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 weeks ago

Not surprised in the least..and people keep demanding and screaming for Chinese EVs because they are cheap. Lovely.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

The answer to people storing their ebikes in their houses and getting themselves killed isn't to ban ebikes or make ebikes harder to get. Because then they just drive a car and get someone else killed. The answer is parking minimums. We need secure, convenient, and electrified outdoor bike parking at every residence. It should be the law. If an ebike catches fire outside, nobody's going to die.

[–] czardestructo 26 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

It would be a lot cheaper to stop allowing no brand cheap crap with no accountability to be drop shipped from China. There are clear and well defined safety standards for lithium batteries and they're just being ignored. They won't prevent 100% of failures but 99.9% if they're followed.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

If it doesn't have a valid CE marking all that shit should be turned back at the border. There's no excuse for deathtraps to be sold in first world countries.

It really doesn't cost much to make this stuff safe.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

Nawww, let's blame the victims!!! 🙃

I really don't get people like that one dude. Someone makes a shitty battery and they turn around screaming yOuRe sTuPiD FoR ChArGiNg sUcH A DaNgErOuS ThInG In yOuR HoMe.

Can you imagine this poor dude? Lost his wife and two children. He's got to live with that. And the internet is screaming "you're stupid!!!"

Check please.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] negativeyoda 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (5 children)

I work at a bike shop. This is the main reason why we refuse to service cheap, direct to consumer bikes. Plus, most use non standard parts, underpowered brakes, etc. They're non serviceable death traps

I feel terrible for that guy. Sadly most consumers don't know. They see one bike that's $1200 while most are $4000+ and they think they're getting a deal

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Lithium battery fires are terrifying, there was one in January on the Toronto subway. Thank goodness they were able to evacuate everyone before it exploded, one of my classmates was on a different car when it happened and he said he heard the explosion as he was leaving the area.

I also learned that people apparently packed their laptops/iPads/portable consoles in their checked baggage, and I've never had peace of mind on a flight since that day.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 weeks ago

There are three reasons you probably don't need to worry about those checked devices.

First, ebikes have way larger batteries than mobile electronics. The first laptop that came up when searching for laptops with large batteries had 80 Wh. The smallest ebike battery that appears in the first article searching for "ebike battery capacity" is 400 Wh.

Second, these problems tend to occur in uncertified third-party knock-offs. Your Lenovo or HP or Apple laptop, or even your Shimano or Bosch ebike, are much, much less likely to fail than a cheap eBay or Amazon battery.

Finally, and possibly most importantly, you are at highest risk while charging, slightly less risk while in use, and lowest risk when off. A device switched off in an aeroplane cabin is about as safe as it can be.

[–] recklessengagement 4 points 2 weeks ago

A decent stopgap could be to ship LiPo battery protection bags with every battery - they're comparatively cheap as hell and while they don't stop smoke (which was the issue in this case), they can greatly reduce fire spread and burn rates.

[–] Tehdastehdas 3 points 2 weeks ago

Choose LiFePO, it's way safer than LiPo.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If there is a god, please give that man as much comfort as possible.

[–] ClockworkOtter 2 points 2 weeks ago

A sentiment I can get behind

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


A man who narrowly survived an ebike battery fire that killed his partner and two children says he is tormented by grief and guilt but determined to fight to change the law to avoid similar tragedies.

When he was pushed back by the flames and toxic fumes he called to his partner, Gemma, 31, and children, Lilly, eight, and Oliver, four, to jump from the same bedroom.

Coroners, fire officers and campaigners have expressed growing alarm about rising sales of unregulated and potentially lethal batteries.

Peden is backing a campaign by the charity Electrical Safety First (ESF) for a law change to ensure there is independent third-party certification in the sale of such batteries, as there is with other dangerous products such as fireworks.

Picking up his phone, he showed that within seconds he was being targeted with adverts on social media for similar secondhand batteries with no safety warnings or certification.

The Department of Business and Trade said a Whitehall taskforce had been set up to tackle the problem and research had been commissioned to understand the cause of fires in lithium batteries.


The original article contains 861 words, the summary contains 184 words. Saved 79%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

load more comments
view more: next ›