this post was submitted on 14 Apr 2024
83 points (84.3% liked)

World News

38943 readers
4799 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Limonene 61 points 6 months ago (8 children)

Why does the article call the people held by Israel "prisoners", but the people held by Palestine "hostages"?

[–] [email protected] 38 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I mean, having a hostage generally implies your intent is to hold that person captive in exchange for a demand being fulfilled, after which point you at least claim that you will release them. Presumably, Israel doesnt intend or claim that it will release those it has imprisoned even if it gets what it wants, so calling them hostages wouldnt really be accurate. One could call the people held by Hamas prisoners too I suppose, since that just implies them to be held against their will, but as they are explicitly being held in order to be used as a bargaining chip, calling them hostages adds more information about the situation than just calling them prisoners too would.

[–] GrymEdm 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

You make sense, and I sort of agree so I won't downvote and just add my bit. The "prisoners" are definitely being used as negotiation leverage in every discussion with Hamas.

[–] SuckMyWang 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I know this goes against the grain of what is being portrayed but a prisoner is also someone who has done something wrong where a hostage is totally innocent

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

In that case, given that many of the people kept by Israel have never seen the inside of a courtroom, that would be a biased use of “prisoner.”

[–] SuckMyWang 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I agree there would be more innocent people than average in those prisons. I’m not under any illusion there aren’t some really awful people in there too.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

There definitely are, but that doesn’t mean Israel is justified in locking them away without due process.

[–] GrymEdm 17 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Israel calls the system it uses to imprison people without trial or even charges "administrative detention". It's hostage taking under a sanitized name and in terms of #'s Israel is provably many times worse than already-terrible Hamas.

"Before October 7, the number of Palestinians held by Israel under administrative detention was already at a 20-year high. According to the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem, there were 1,310 Palestinians imprisoned without charge or trial at the end of September, including at least 146 minors. Since then, Israel has dramatically increased its use of administrative detention, pushing the number of detainees to over 2,000 within the first four weeks of the war. (That’s out of a total of roughly 7,000 Palestinian prisoners.)"

People are often imprisoned for no other reason than Israelis don't like them. Sometimes it's social media posts. The average length of detention without trial or charge is a year. So if an Israeli soldier doesn't like you being free, you can lose a year of your life being abused in prison for no other reason. There is an appeals process, but a report showed appeals failed 98.8% of the time from 2015-17 and there were no successes at all in 2023. "The overall figure is outrageous,” Montell said. “This is a patently illegal practice. These people should be given a fair trial or released.”

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

To paint one side as legitimate and the other as not

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] FlyingSquid 29 points 6 months ago (9 children)

"We.. reaffirm our adherence to our demands and the national demands of our people; with a permanent ceasefire, the withdrawal of the occupation army from the entire Gaza Strip, the return of the displaced to their areas and places of residence, intensification of the entry of relief and aid, and the start of reconstruction," the Islamist faction said.

Not a single one of those seems unreasonable in the slightest and I can't see why any of them should be withdrawn.

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] merthyr1831 12 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Israel didn't offer a ceasefire. They offered a pause.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

A pause in a war is called what exactly?

Oh, ceasefire. Huh.

[–] MrNesser 9 points 6 months ago

There's a specific definition here though

A pause indicates a temporary stop to advancing with no obligation to stop shooting

While a ceasefire is they stop shooting.

If Israel broke a ceasefire it could be seen as worse than essentially unpausing the conflict.

It's all wording, semantics and ultimately drivel but that's politics and diplomacy.

[–] Linkerbaan 5 points 6 months ago (20 children)

Reuters still pushing Zionist propaganda 6 months in. Sad to see.

We all know israel is the only party rejecting an actual permanent ceasefire.

[–] GrymEdm 18 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Agreed. Israel is going to the meetings but their proposals amount to "give us back the Israeli hostages, we'll give you a few hundred of the thousands of Palestinians we're imprisoning, and then we'll go back to killing you mmkay?" Even their ceasefire proposals are a) temporary and b) don't stop the terrible conditions of apartheid/hostile occupation the Palestinians were living in for decades before Oct. 7th.

Netanyahu has made it clear he will keep on killing Palestinians until Hamas is eliminated aka for as long as it serves his purposes. Don't forget Netanyahu's administrations are the whole reason Hamas was put in and kept power in the first place.

[–] FlowVoid 1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Wars generally end when one side surrenders.

Neither Israel nor Hamas wants to surrender, so there is no reason to expect a "permanent ceasefire".

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

A lot of wars have ended in a stalemate.

And if Israel is just stopping the onslaught in Gaza it is not a surrender. They wouldn't have given up anything.

[–] FlowVoid 1 points 6 months ago

Wars end in stalemate when both sides agree that they cannot make further military advances. That's not the case here.

[–] Linkerbaan 3 points 6 months ago (8 children)

There have been multiple previous wars between Hamas and israel, and other parties like Lebanon, and it usually ends in a ceasefire.

Israel saying they want keep committing Genocide after a 6 week break and then occupy Gaza isn't exactly a great deal.

load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (18 replies)
[–] tehWrapper 1 points 6 months ago

I'm tired of arguing about what horrible group is less horrible than the other..

load more comments
view more: next ›