People in the privacy community need to get over the unrealistic dream that regular people will adopt Matrix when we can't even get them to use Signal. The only way Matrix will have mass adoption is through getting a lot of corporate clients. Then the workers might choose to use it personally too after being familiar with it.
this post was submitted on 26 Mar 2024
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Privacy
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Matrix still doesn't have a multi account client with threads.
I don't mind Matrix, but every time I bring this up to a hard core Matrix defender to how the clients are lacking, they don't have much to counter.
I'm writing a new Matrix client that's focused specifically on being a Discord-like dead simple experience for professional people -- it's under GPLv3 and written in pure Dart
Probably will have the first actual release in one to two months -- please tell me what you would like in terms of features so I can shove it into my already massive backlog
A client that is basically a ripoff of Telegram would be ideal for me, for what it's worth
Main features I like are replies, reactions to messages (also double tap to react with a default emoji), and that view where you can open a chain of replies like it's its own conversation (I'm assuming this is what is meant by "threading"/"threads")
Lastly, maybe the uncompressed and compressed photo/video options if that's not already a thing
If it had the above I would probably like Discord style too
Most of that is already covered by an existing Matrix client called FluffyChat too, if you want something right now
And sure, I mean I never saw any usage in threading but I guess some people really do be liking their threads
Fluffychat doesn't support threads at the moment
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Sometimes even anything other than SMS kn the US because ppl just assume everyone have iPhones
I imagine SMS authorisation texts are Telegrams biggest single expense, they are for Signal https://signal.org/blog/signal-is-expensive/
Telcos know that authentication is about the only remaining use case for SMS and are not going to turn down the revenue stream.
That said this idea from Telegram sounds absurd. Not least I expect most contracts prevent reselling free SMS’s like this. The security implications have got to be significant too.
Telcos know that authentication is about the only remaining use case for SMS and are not going to turn down the revenue stream.
And it can't die fast enough, as it's essentially the same as broadcasting your sensitive information over unencrypted radio.
Apart from security, phone number based user identification is such a half-assed approach and I still don't get why Signal wants to die on that hill. It's inconvenient, yet trivial, for anyone to register a second, third or tenth phone number. With a bit more knowledge and inconvenience, even anonymously. It adds so little.
It's pretty drastically harder to register 100 phone numbers, especially in your target region, than 100 email addresses. Major spammers and such work with automation across many accounts, this isn't designed around someone with 10 accounts.
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Wow, that's super sketchy.
I'm trying to get my wife to use something decent, and I think Signal is the way to go. It's focused on P2P communication so it's a better replacement for SMS and whatnot, but it also has groups so it can also replace MMS. She likes Discord, but I don't think she'll be as keen to try out Matrix since she'll just wonder why I don't just use Discord.
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Man this is so scuffed! Offering free subscriptions in exchange for using your personal phone as a relay for OTP codes is a recipe for disaster.
What could POSSIBLY go wrong with this deal?
No jokes, I'd like to know. How is it different from sending sms to random numbers?
... people just send SMS to random phone numbers?
No but what exactly stops anyone from doing that? A privacy consideration? I'd think it's just a waste of time at best.
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ok but, why don't use telegram for this? scammers are everywhere but how is this telegram's fault
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Also Simplex but I find element client very comfortable to use.
I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts about Signal and DeltaChat for messaging
Signal and DeltaChat, as well as Simplex and some others e2e communication solutions, are adequate from a technical point of view.
The main issue is always adoption. You can have the most convenient way to safely communicate with people, it'll be useless if nobody you're talking to wants to use it.
So, since Signal is very easy to set up and use as well as the most adopted, it's currently the best pick for regular conversations.
Signal good, I've never heard of Deltachat
Been using Deltachat for about a year, so far so good. I dunno how secure it really is (never took the time to check) but it's been reliable. Multi-device was kinda quirky at first but has gotten better.
Signal is fine for a drop-in WhatsApp replacement. I use it for chatting to my friends casually. For something you need more security for you could do encrypted emails as that doesn't require exchanging phone numbers, or ideally just arrange to meet up in-person and discuss things so you don't leave any kind of digital or paper trail.
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Signal is pretty broken. A chat app shouldn’t require a SIM card & an iOS/Android device just to create & maintain an account (too bad Linux or KaiOS users or folks that otherwise don’t want a smart phone). Multi-devdice setups seem to have issues. The desktop app being Electron is a waste of resources. They still don’t want to support UnifiedPush while highly encouraging you download the app from the Google Play Store & send notification data thru Google-controlled FSM. There’s also the missing history of the server code which is probably has something to do with US intelligence injecting code.
Is it better than a lot of things, sure, but it should be put on a pedestal nor seen as exemplary for private chat in UI or philosophy.
I said Signal, meant to say Sessions
Deltachat is a clever idea that I wish it became more widespread.
Reading the discussion here. I'd never heard of xmpp. Probably just never registered as a messaging alternative. Just checked out https://xmpp.org/. Wow! Tons of apps. Even some android apps on fdroid. Guess I've got some exploring to do.
XMPP is an old protocol. GTalk (google talk) and Whatsapp used it, then extended it, then didn't give back to the community. So here we are...
The problem with alternative protocols and apps and whatnot is that people are reluctant to change and won't try anything new if only 2-3 other people use that protocol/service. I can't even convince my best friends to use Signal, let alone XMPP.
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One can never expect power of any kind to not be abused!
Thanks for the heads up
I think this is a bit panicky... am I going to use it? Nah.
But also, my phone number has been leaked by plenty of entities... some random person getting a text from it wouldn't even be that weird considering SMS spoofing. Someone could be using my number for a nasty spam attack right now and I wouldn't know.
PLEASE don’t use Telegram! I personally recommend Matrix as it’s totally FOSS
No, Matrix isn’t even near good in terms of privacy and openness. It is a metadata disaster.
Matrix’s E2EE does not, however, encrypt everything. The following information is not encrypted: Message senders, Session/device IDs, Message timestamps, Room members (join/leave/invite events), Message edit events, Message reactions, Read receipts, Nicknames, Profile pictures
Matrix is developed by a for profit entity, a group of venture capitalists and having a spec doesn’t mean everything. The way Matrix is designed is to force into jumping through hoops and kind of draw all attention to Matrix itself instead of the end result.
For all the people about to downvote:
Decentralized communication protocol Matrix shifts to less-permissive AGPL open source license Element, the company and core developer behind the decentralized communication protocol known as Matrix, has announced a notable license change that will make the open source project just that little bit less appealing for companies looking to build on top of it.
Stop recommending questionable open-source like Matrix. XMPP is the true and the OG federated and truly open solution that is very extensible. XMPP is tested, reliable, secure and above all a truly open standard and decentralized it just lacks some investment in better mobile clients.
What people fail to see is that XMPP is the only solution that treats messaging and video like email: just provide an address and the servers and clients will cooperate with each other in order to maintain a conversation. Everything else is just an attempt at yet another vendor lock-in.
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I would use Simplex chat over matrix
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