this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2024
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Hungary’s interior ministry claimed the deal would improve safety in tourist hotspots or during events that attract large numbers of spectators.

But the plan has drawn criticism from those concerned the agreement will be abused by communist China, which has a lengthy record of human rights abuses.

The patrols could be the first step to establishing secret police stations or used to intimidate the overseas Chinese community, they warned.

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[–] [email protected] 95 points 6 months ago (3 children)
  1. WTF?!
  2. I thought China denied that there are any Chinese "police" stations in Europe?

I hope the EU permanently cuts Hungary's funding and takes away their voting rights now. This fascist shit in the middle of Europe has to stop.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 6 months ago

I wish kicking out Orbán would become a topic in the election this year

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

I thought China denied that there are any Chinese "police" stations in Europe?

They deny all sorts of things:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/05/italy-home-11-unofficial-chinese-police-stations-world

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

230,000 Chinese "persuaded to return" from abroad, China to establish Extraterritoriality


(Sep 2022)

A new law adopted 2 September, going into effect 1 December, establishes full extraterritoriality over Chinese and foreigners globally for certain crimes (fraud, telecom fraud, online scams, etc.)

A follow-up to this investigation with additional information, 'Patrol and Persuade', has been released in Dec 2022, and again in Nov 2023, 'China's Consular Volunteers.'

There are lot of other reports across the web, e.g., for Netherlands, the U.S., and many others.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 6 months ago (21 children)

Why does China need to extend its police to patrol globally exactly?

[–] [email protected] 75 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Lets them spy on Chinese nationals who are studying and working in the west

That's also the big thing security experts are actually worried about when they talk about the threat posed by TikTok,

It's not that it spies just on you, it's that your instance is also spying on everyone around you. It'll identify Chinese nationals in your proximity and start collecting data on what they're up to, and if Beijing doesn't like what they're seeing, those police will pay them a visit, not to arrest them of course, just to let them know how disappointed their families will be in them...from inside the reeducation camp.

[–] Gigasser 15 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Does Hungary have a lot of Chinese expats?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago

If the number is more than 1, then according the Beijing, yes.

Also Hungary is close enough to everyone else that the occasional espionage agent can slip into the rest of Europe more easily

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

According to 2022 census data 18000 Chinese nationals live in Hungary, 15000 from that live in Budapest, they are the most popolous foreign community there.

[–] Gigasser 2 points 6 months ago

I did a little digging, and I found out that a lot of Triads do business in Hungary. Perhaps this collaboration is due to that? Although it's probably most likely just Orban trying to curry favor with Beijing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

As far as expats go, yes, Chinese are probably the largest group, their numbers are estimated around 18k now (used to maybe 50k in the 90s) but this is a lower estimate, since a lot of them are here without a citizenship. In 2013 a visa program was started when they could basically buy a citizenship if they buy government bonds for 250-300k€ (plus they pay a handling fee of 50k for a politician's company).

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

They do it covertly, too.

China wants to maintain full control of anyone who it views as it’s citizens (importantly distinct from actual citizens), regardless of whether or not they’re in China, and regardless of whether or not they have PRC citizenship or not.

Most nations would object to this, especially if it involves the PRC exerting jurisdiction within the host country’s borders, potentially on the host country’s citizens, and almost certainly on the host country’s legal residents. Orban, evidently, does not.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 6 months ago

I had to do a double take on that headline. What the hell, it's actually real.

[–] MushuChupacabra 34 points 6 months ago (1 children)

How many foreign police offices does China allow within its borders?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Minus eleven

[–] LesserAbe 34 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Baffling. I read the article but wondering if some kind of rationalization is outlined somewhere else.

Police represent the authority of the state and have a monopoly on violence. They only "earn" that monopoly because ostensibly they have been authorized democratically by the people. (Much more could be said about that) Chinese police in Hungary do not represent Hungarian people and so they should not be in any kind of position of authority.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

"They only "earn" that monopoly because ostensibly they have been authorized democratically by the people."

Well, that might be the social framework fir a democracy. But we are talking about Hungary here.

[–] LesserAbe 1 points 6 months ago

Lol hence "much more could be said about that"

[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago

You see police brutality from wish.com is 70% cheaper than local police brutality so this is a win for every Hungarian

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Oh my god im so fucking lucky i moved away from that shithole. Sadly my sister goes to school there and my grandmother still lives there.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana 14 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

What in the fucking hell

edit: like, what in the fucking fuck?

[–] fleabomber 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You mean the guy who was just in Mar-A-Lago?

[–] MisterSteve 1 points 6 months ago
[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago

Are they like fining Chinese tourist there or what are they supposed to do? Ignoring the fact that foreign police has no say on Hungarian soil.

[–] mean_bean279 8 points 6 months ago

Isn’t Hungary and Orban the guy that always talks about how dangerous western countries have become due to liberal/progressive laws while their conservative approach is keeping crime low? So do they have low crime and no need, high crime and a need for support, or low crime but with no sustainable way to keep policing at that level?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

China should be completely isolated.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Sketchy af, but my opinion will depend alot on what exactly will be done.

In certain places in Germany (e.g. Nürnberg train station) the US military police is patrolling (or used to patrol) together with regular German police, because there have been incidents in the past of US army personnel not listening to german police.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Are there incidents of overseas Chinese not listening to the Hungarian police? If not, what's the justification here?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I don't know, I'm just saying there could be actual reasons for it and it's not a bad thing per se.

Edit: the article says the justification is

helping to improve communication between the citizens and the authorities of the two countries

There are a ton of Chinese speakers. I can imagine small tourist spots getting overwhelmed during Chinese school holidays. Having translators with some authority can greatly increase crowd control.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

What a weird solution to a foreign power soldiers not obeying local law enforcement. Just lock them up, or let the German soldiers handle it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

The German military is not allowed to act inside the country. Only exception is natural disaster relief. We have special police forces for high stakes situations like terrorist attacks.

But when there is a fight between 20 well trained soldiers who just don't give a fuck, what is the police supposed to do? Besides, the army police has more leverage and can influence the soldiers career and stuff as well.

It's not an ideal solution. Having a foreign entity project power - yikes! (even if it is just for their own subjects) but it's a solution.

[–] danl 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Seems pretty elegant to me. Don’t U.S. troops have a whole bunch of additional military laws? This way local police don’t need to learn all of that nonsense and the U.S. military get to hold their people to that higher standard while also helping each other out. Probably cheaper and better results for both?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

In this particular case it was less about higher standards and more about not listening to local law enforcement.

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