this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2024
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Electric school buses are a breath of fresh air for children | Nearly $1B in federal funding could help clean up the unequal health impacts of diesel pollution.::Nearly $1B in federal funding will help decarbonize transportation and clean up some of the unequal health impacts of diesel pollution

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 9 months ago (1 children)

As a child in the 80's I remember my gag reflex kicking in every time I walked to my bus. The air was so bad that my body physically refused to let me take in a breath.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife 20 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

FWIW diesel-powered vehicles are much cleaner now than they were in the '80s. Diesel fuel is now sulfur-free, and since 2004 progressively stiffer EPA regulations have reduced the NOx and particulate matter output of diesel engines by orders of magnitude. Unfortunately, though, "cleaner" in this case does not include a reduction in greenhouse gases - in fact, school bus engines of today spit out more greenhouse gases per mile than did buses of the 1980s. This is because the EPA diesel regulations limit permitted emissions based on horsepower-miles, so an engine with twice the horsepower (like today's bus engines compared with older engines) is permitted to emit twice as much junk. And since modern bus engines have much more horsepower, they emit much more greenhouse gases.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I expect soon I will see "diesel parties" where parents bring their kids to inhale diesel fumes from a running lifted pickup in a closed off garage.

Similar to how people I know advertised their gas stoves to everyone they know to bring their children to have an "illegal gas cooked meal" on weekends...

[–] arin 3 points 9 months ago

Wish every politician gets first dibs in these diesel parties, preferably a nice closed garage with excellent weather sealing for efficiency

[–] BeautifulMind 22 points 9 months ago (2 children)

For those of you who haven't been in a school bus in years, do you remember how loud they are? Reducing diesel pollution is a win, but being in a less-noisy environment for however long each day is also a win.

As a cyclist and occasional user of public transit, I really like the idea of most buses eventually being at least plug-in hybrid-electric if not entirely battery electric. I'm curious about the mass difference between a diesel, diesel-electric, and battery-electric bus (after all, the heavier the vehicle, the harder it is on the road). I expect some of the fuel-and-maintenance-cost-savings from the bus fleet will have to go to road maintenance in the end, but I'd rather spend money that way (locally) than spend it on pumping fresh hot carbon out of foreign wellheads

[–] Duamerthrax 7 points 9 months ago

Diesel-Electric Hybrid should also be considered as an option depending on the use case of the service area. As a hybrid, the bus wouldn't need to run it's diesel engine at the school pickup point, would have the the benefit of regenerative braking, and overall have better fuel economy, emissions, and longevity of the engine.

This would be beneficial to areas that are too rural and have too long of routes for the batteries to last and areas that have a lot of cold weather might not want to risk freezing their kids because the batteries suddenly have to both drive and heat the whole bus. Cities could be all electric because the routes are much shorter and overall be operating at lower speeds. Also, much more stop-and-go, so the regen braking will really shine.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Will people stop trying to put batteries in everything already? They are heavy, slow to charge, unsustainable, cause fires that can't be extinguished and are affected by extreame weather(especially cold).

Public transit runs on predefined routes, for that you can setup trams(best option) or trolleybuses(no need for rails). I don't care that you think the wires look ugly, they are objectively the better solution.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Almost like we're still putting money into research to solve all those problems. Much of what you cite is overblown, and what remains valid isn't going to stay that way.

Edit: also, school buses need to support a lot of routes that are off the main roads. Tram or trolley systems are not feasible.

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[–] Duamerthrax 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Do you not understand what a school buses job is? That route changes every year and not everyone lives where you can expect kids to be able walk to a high traffic bus stop.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

That route changes every year and not everyone lives where you can expect kids to be able walk to a high traffic bus stop.

If you had proper public transport that number would be quite negligible. Very very occasionally you see dedicated school buses in rural areas in Germany: Minivans. Which makes sense as boondonks areas might not have bus service but have collect taxis as only public transport, which generally are also minivans. Think living in a village of 50 and going to a school in another village, population of 2k or so. The scale of Wacken, maybe a bit smaller. Let me see... Yeah Bokelrehm doesn't have a bus station. OTOH it's like a kilometre from the school in Wacken so kids are probably biking ("Grundschule Wacken", northern end of the village on the road to Bokelrehm).

Usually the most that happens is that a regular bus service gets a doubled-up schedule when school starts and ends.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago (45 children)

Why not just make normal public transit? Like school busses aren't a thing here so I took the regular bus to school like everyone else, it's a lot more versatile too since people can take it to more places.

[–] DoomBot5 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

School busses don't have adult strangers and other issues tied to them. They only go from people's homes to school and back.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

What issues do adult strangers cause? And what are the other issues? Also legs work pretty good to get to a bus station, I hear kids have those.

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[–] Mamertine 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The article talked a lot about school buses in rural areas. Mass Transit isn't a thing in most rural areas.

In urban cities, yes that's a feasible idea. Most people in the USA live in places where mass transit isn't feasible.

We are a nation of car drivers who bought into the dream of having a house on a large lot in the suburbs. Mass Transit exists, but in the burb it's generally a parking lot where you take a bus to your job downtown.

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[–] esc27 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I could see this fit in perfectly with normal bus routes, but field trips and athletic events could be a challenge, especially for rural schools. Nothing that could not be planned around but possibly an extra cost (e.g. charter buses) or needing to keep the kids entertained while charging on the road.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I bet with the maintenance and fuel savings, the occasional charter would be cheaper over the lifetime of the bus.

If not, replace your 30 diesel fleet with 25 electric and 5 diesel. Still a big win.

[–] LazaroFilm 5 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Yep I bet they’ll keep a handful of diesel trucks for specific occasions and emergencies.

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[–] CADmonkey 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I remember the school buses in one high school I went to running on propane. It's not as clean as electric, but it's cleaner than diesel... and at the time, an electric school bus would have been expensive, if not outright science fiction.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Now that's what I call "Propane Accessories"!

[–] QuandaleDingle 7 points 9 months ago
[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (4 children)

There were a number of electric busses in the early 1900s. There are plenty of large electric people and material movers. They've been used for a hundred years now for underground mining.

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[–] Bgugi 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The money will purchase more than 2,700 vehicles to shuttle 7 million students in 37 states

Big buses...

[–] OhmsLawn 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Good catch lol. I'm trying to picture a 2600 passenger bus. That's more than any train I've ever been on. It would have to be the size of an ocean liner.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I am assuming they are adding multiple trips a day. My old bus dropped off elementary, middle, and high school. Some drivers even did after school drop offs. I doubt they mean 2600 buses moving 7 million people in 1 trip.

[–] FlyingSquid 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Republicans are against it because they think children should be breathing diesel fumes and the ones who get ill from it didn't try hard enough.

[–] NickwithaC 3 points 9 months ago

Republicans are against it because oil lobbyists who would lose money on it told them to be and the bribe money is nice.

"Fuck them kids."

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