this post was submitted on 09 May 2024
663 points (96.8% liked)
196
16817 readers
3134 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Essentially this implies you have to be mark material for Nigerian princes in order to not vote for Biden (id est vote against Trump).
It also implies that enough of US voters are, indeed, that naïve.
Or maybe people can't bring themselves to vote for someone funding and enabling a genocide. I'll be voting for a 3rd party candidate so there won't be blood on my hands.
You do you tho but don't be surprised when people shit on you for supporting a genocide when you tell them you voted for Biden
likewise, voting for a third party, also equally i would argue, supports a genocide. Due to the fact that the US is almost explicitly two party, the third party is really just the 12 people in a city who think they're better than whatever the fuck else exists, even though ultimately about 14 people will vote for said party, and one of those is someone who doesn't know any of the candidates.
Politics is hell, life is hell, the world is hell, i consider this to be a form of astroturfing to be completely honest. Nothing you do is going to make a significant difference, you need to be conscious of that, unless we have a ranked choice voting system with like 5 candidates, where the win is by plurality and not the fucking majority percent, then it literally does not matter who you vote for. (when it comes down to this kind of proxy war bullshit that seems to inflame people so aggressively, on a macro scale, it's different, i'm just making a point)
Just for the record, so you don't think im some sort of morally superior fuckhead twat, i'm not voting this cycle. I'm worse than anybody voting. Literally anything you do is going to be better than me. At the very least, nobody can say i support genocide, because i am ambivalent to it. This is the road you are toeing close to my friend.
What kind of Backwoods fucking logic is that.... so choosing not to vote for the two candidates who are pro genocide makes me pro genocide? The fuck are you saying?
God you fucking neo libs are dumber than fucking conservatives at this point.
i'm saying that it makes no quantifiable difference, in the same way that me not voting, literally does nothing. The fact that you are also basically not voting (third party candidates pull basically nothing most of the time)
As a result, the likely people to go into power, are well... The two candidates who "support genocide" This is just how two party systems tend to work. You need like 5 different candidates with plurality voting for it to really matter. Once you start having that level of candidacy the numbers become significantly more spread out due to the fact that candidates have more varied policies. Moving it from majority vote win, to plurality vote win. I.E. Significantly more attainable, stable, and a lot more applicable to an entire countries governmental policies.
Maybe i'm fucking wrong, and maybe this third party individual is fucking incredible, once in a lifetime political handling abilities and is going to bump straight through all the bullshit and right into the presidency. I'm not willing to bet on it though. Currently the political system is so aggressively polarized, that we are "voting between a fascist, and someone who isn't that fascist" so if we want to "not be fascist" our best option here is going to be voting for the party who is "not fascist" because you can be sure as hell that conservatives aren't voting third party. Maybe they are, but not in any significant numbers, likewise can be said for the democratic party.
I simply do not see a situation where we come out of this without either trump, or biden in power. Unless i start hearing shit like, tomorrow, about this supposed third party. I simply don't think it's feasible for any other result. I can't imagine republicans are voting in any significant number against trump, most people who would are probably swing voters, so democrat this time around. Those who are voting for trump are going to be a significant portion of the base, probably at least 30% of the votes of that party. The democrats have the same issue. Most people are going to prefer voting for biden because incumbency and shit hasn't fucking exploded completely yet. I mean sure some people involved in the israel palestine stuff are probably voting third party, but i can't imagine they're a significant part of the populous. If they were we wouldn't be in this position that we are now.
At best, what voting for third party this time does is say "i didnt vote for joe biden, or trump" which like, you do you. But uh, good luck have fun with that one.
I'm gonna let you know right now that shaming people who don't vote for Biden is not a winning strategy and never will be.
Also saying Republicans are fascist and democrats aren't only appeals to liberals. Lefties fully believes both parties are fascist so that argument doesn't work either.
just for the record i'm not shaming people for how they vote, i'm shaming people for believing that there is some form of altruistic meaning in whoever you vote for. There isn't, there isn't a way to win, the entire point of voting is democratic compromise, you shouldn't feel like an in group, you shouldn't feel like an outgroup, you should feel like a contributor, because that's what you did. You contributed.
The rest is fair enough, but i wasn't going to interject a complete political paper into a comment about how voting is fucked up. Regardless, it serves it's purpose. Also i don't fully align with your interpretation of my statements, i bunched center leaning moderate types into the "swing voters" people who regularly change who they vote for because they generally don't care. This often leaves people who consistently vote for republican/democratic presidents. So most of who would be left is going to be maga/far right people, i.e. primarily trump voters. I don't want to say most left over democratic voters are going to vote biden, because i think there will be a significant upset, but i think it'll be most voters that end up voting for biden, like i said unless the third party gets like 30% percent votes or something, nothing unusual has happened.
Donald Trump thanks you from the cold depths of his orange heart.
You do you tho but don't be surprised when people shit on you for ensuring a Trump victory, when he makes good on his pledge to help Israel "finish them all"
Ah yes, it's my fault for not wanting to vote for Biden and not Bidens fault for committing a genocide and making his voter base absolutely fucking hate him.
Oh that's definitely his fault, but you are presented 2 bad options and have chosen the worst one out of principle.
Please be practical. I want the best for Palestine, and unfortunately the best US presidential candidate for them with a chance of winning is Biden. "best" meaning least worst...
Send a message all you'd like, but I'd rather minimize the inevitable damage than say "told you so" while standing and watching everything burn.
No. It's not our problem to fix. It's sometimes just a choice to walk away which everyone seems these days to push that you should just focus on yourself anyways.
If they don't want our input, or effort or thoughts but just want a vote and some money then fuck it. I'm not involved and I don't have the sway or money to even be a bother to them.
I won't just be a resource to be won by default.
You have a completely different perspective than I. Yes, the Democratic party is being an ass to voters; yes, I hate them for what they're (not) doing; but I can slightly affect the odds to be slightly better for Palestine, so I will.
You can send a message that you're not a pawn, but they don't care, or at least in 4 years it won't matter anymore. If you want the best for Palestine, analyze your options for what's best, of which giving up and stepping back is not a very good one.
Push Biden to end the genocide instead of shaming voters for not wanting to vote for him
I'm not shaming you for not wanting to vote for him, I don't want to either, I'm trying to convince people that voting for him is in Palestine's best interest (better than Trump winning).
See that's your problem, you shouldn't be convincing people to vote for Biden. You should be convincing Biden to be someone worth voting for.
Why not both?
You don't do both tho, yall just make excuses for Biden.
I'm not part of a hive mind, I think that might be your problem. If you want to find a reason to be annoyed at me, I guess I can't stop you.
You guys have one chord and think it’s a song.
So you support genocide?
So you support Trump and want a dictatorship, got it.
Becsuse that's what your actions are. They're naive actions which help Trump.
And this is why people don't like democrats, I'm not helping Trump by not voting for Biden. Maybe don't be a genocide maniac and people will vote for you.
Yes you are.
Especially because the US doesn't even employ direct presidential elections, but uses the electoral college. A third party candidate simply will not win. Any obfuscation of a clear win will make it that much easier for the electors to disregard the people.
I'd like to remind you that Trump is still actively pretending the last time he didn't lose, and even when he was elected president, it was against the popular vote.
So yes, by not voting for Biden, you are helping Trump, like it or not. Which you clearly do, with the whole "this is why people don't like democrats". I'm not American, and you still result to trying to mock democrats, clearly implying you're a republican.
And thus you probably actually know you are helping Trump and you're fine with it, you're just ashamed of letting people know that's what you actually think.
The democratic strategy of shaming people for not voting for your candidate instead of shaming your candidate for committing a genocide is an odd strategy....
Keep it up, you're only making people not want to vote for Biden even more.
Do you understand that the US isn't a democracy? You can live in your fantasies, I can't help that — and again, I'm not American — but that won't change the political reality you live in.
You don't live in a democracy. Your vote can already be ignored. And you're ready to throw it away, instead of voting against Trump?
Voting for Biden doesn't mean you agree with him, ffs.
I have a horse in this race because the US is already infamous for it's crass foreign policy.
And you want to give Trump a better chance of winning?
Do you understand that the last time he "won", he didn't even have the popular vote?
And you're trying to make it easier for the US to become a vassal state to Russia? Trump is Putin's whore, and his only chance.
If Trump wins, it's an actual threat to democracy everywhere on this planet, however indirectly.
So I don't care if you have to vote for another shitty president who doesn't care about foreigners dying, it's nothing new to you. As long as it's not the illiterate orange clown who is in Putin's pocket. And you don't seem to have a lot of choice, realistically, do you?
If I were as generalising as you, I'd write "this is why people hate Americans" but I know not everyone from the US is like you.
You're only hurting your cause, you made me want to vote for Biden even less.
So youre saying you're so easy to influence that a stranger online affects your voting decisions? Oh golly.
Why do you reply if you ignore everything I say?
When Trump was elected, he didn't actually have the majority vote.
And you think it's realistic for a third party candidate to win because of your vote, despite several presidents having lost the presidency despite winning the popular vote?
Do you support Trump?
Do you support Putin?
Yall neo libs are cheering on a genocide. Ofcourse I wouldn't want to vote for your party. Democrats are the party of genocide.
So, to reiterate, you're not getting the point that I'm not American, or... you're just not aware that your political labels don't apply world-wide?
Secondly, the active ignoring of "do you support Trump" and "do you support Putin" tell a tale of their own. Mainly that you probably don't want to say that you don't support either. Anyone supporting Putin and Trump are more likely Putin fans, who just understand that Trump winning is the only chance Putin has. Which is why they would like for people to not vote for Biden. Because that's how sad Putin's situation is. He's cowering in a bunker, like Hitler before he killed himself. Which is probably the best option Putin has when Biden wins.
Which is why you're so desperate for your one-note insult at Biden, because Russian information warfare is so shit you think that's enough. People aren't voting for Biden, but against Trump.
Fuck Trump Fuck Biden Fuck Putin Fuck Zelensky Fuck Netanyahu
There ya go, did i cover all the things I'm supposed to say to make you happy? Almost forgot
Fuck you
"Fuck Zelensky"
Uhm, yeah, tell me more, Russian bot.
If you're actually American, them why won't you answer about me asking if you know America is not a democracy, and that by voting for a third party, you're definitely making the rise of fascism more likely?