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I dream of a future where we don't end people's lives, no matter what they've done. I believe that using the death penalty as a way to scare people into behaving ignores the real reasons why people do bad things in the first place. I also think that there are some people who, because of the way their brain works, can't be stopped by fear of punishment.
Looking at what Jesus, Buddha, or great thinkers like Marcus Aurelius said, they all teach us to be kind and understand that everyone deserves respect, even those who might seem broken or lost. To me, it feels wrong to use someone as a warning to others because it forgets that every person has value.
This is just how I see things, based on what I believe and what matters to me. I know it's a big, complicated topic, and not everyone will see it the same way.
When I was 12 I hid under the couch while my Grandpa brutally murdered my grandma overnight. Between around 11:00 pm and about 4:00am He hit her with with the coat tree, threw her down the stairs, whipped her with his belt until she bled, took her outside and tied her up behind his car and dragged her up and down the road before finally drowning her in a 5 gallon bucket of water. I was 12, and I watched.
For 22 years I went and fought his parole, every 5 years from the time I was 17 until I was 34 I had to go look that monster in the eye.
He swore if he ever got out he'd put the rest of the family in the ground too.
For 22 years I lived in constant, overbearing, fear of him doing the same things to me, my mom, my dad, my brother, and my cousins, that he did to my grandma that night.
The BIGGEST disservice ever done to my family by the state of Ohio is letting that horrible man live for 22 years. He should have been gassed on day 1.
And this is why victims do not get be the arbiters of justice, nor should they.
This is why we have judges and juries. But enforcing a death penalty generally causes more trauma than it serves justice.
This is why over 70% of the world’s countries have abolished or de facto abolished capital punishment. It doesn’t work, it doesn’t serve justice, and it only continues the cycle of violence.
Just to give you an idea of how backwards the United States is on this issue:
Since 1990, at least 11 countries have executed offenders who were minors (under the age of 18 or 21) at the time the crime was committed, which is a breach of the Convention on the Rights of the Child, ratified by all countries but the United States. These are: China, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, South Sudan, Sudan, the United States, and Yemen.[11][12][13] In the United States, this ended in 2005 with the Supreme Court case Roper v. Simmons, in Nigeria in 2015 by a law,[14] and in Saudi Arabia in 2020 by royal decree.
Edit: I can’t claim to understand how you feel about your experience and what happened to you, which is why I didn’t address it. I hope that you and your loved ones have access to therapy and the ability to live your lives in peace.
This is why victims are not on the juries of their perpetrators. If we allow feelings and emotions to get in the way of a fair unbiased justice system, it’s not the way we should do things.
I am sorry for your story that is horrible. I have not had to deal with things like this and can't say with certainty how I'd react; so I'll let you to your opinion un-judged by me. I will consider your story in my perspective when I meditate on such things Chainweasel, honestly...
I do believe all peace is interconnected like a web, and even if you have 1 million murderers locked up forever, if they themselves don't have access to any peace or spiritual growth they will effect all of us, we are more than physical bodies and minds, we are sensitive emotional creatures.
Uh there's a lot to learn from Marcus Aurelius but I wouldn't look to him for unwavering compassion.
Agreed. Here is a relevant Marcus Quote for this disccussion " You should bear in mind constantly that death has come to men* of all kinds, men with varied occupations and various ethnicities… We too will inevitably end up where so many [of our heroes] have gone… Heraclitus, Pythagoras, Socrates… brilliant intellectuals, high-minded men, hard workers, men of ingenuity, self-confident men, men… who mocked the very transience and impermanence of human life…. men… long dead and buried… Only one thing is important: to behave throughout your life toward the liars and crooks around you with kindness, honesty, and justice. "
People here could argue that Justice is death for a death but that is a perspective worth arguing over I feel.
Is it really used as a warning though? I presume it's more like a statement of removing a constant danger from the population without keeping them permanently alone. To your point, if every person has value then you can't just lock up inveterate murderers with other prisoners and put those prisoners in potential mortal danger.
I'm not sure this is how the death penalty is used in practice since the appeals process is so long, but I'd be hard pressed to think of a punishment worse than perpetual solitude in a small concrete box until you naturally expire decades later with no hope of ever leaving.
I don't see it as a way of scaring people. I see it as telling a criminal "there's no coming back from what you did."
Some crimes are irredeemable, killing 5 people without question and arguably 5 more, all in separate incidents, falls under that.
Do you have any spiritual framework you draw this from? Where did you learn that there are things to which a sentient being can not come back from? I understand we have different perspectives now I'd like to see what our differing principals or values may be that allow us different thoughts.
Nope, it comes from having seen monsters.
Don't waste the time on them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westley_Allan_Dodd
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Weaver_III
The list goes on. Some crimes are beyond a "correctional institute".
Lets explore how we got to different places.
We know things three ways I see. We know how to breath by just "knowing" like a bird knows to make a nest. We know by "experience" like touching a hot stove will burn. We know by "reasoning" such as this other thing cooks and looks hot it will burn me too.
Your experience of seeing monsters lead you to reason there is no value or redemption. Is this correct Call out if I'm wrong...
My knowing comes from just knowing which was cultivated through spiritual pursuits amd mediation. I could try and further explain but I'd need to present full Buddhist perspective.
Very different knowledge we have. It would be hard to talk on this issue, none of my spiritual explanations couldn't find soil in your non spiritual framework and I've not experienced monsters like you and hence lack experience to relate well.
Not experiencing monsters is a GOOD thing. It's inherently good that you have a more innocent perspective than I do. Please don't lose that. :)