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This thread is wild.. is it seriously shocking to people here that Biden campaigners (plurality young people) are upset about his response to the genocide in Gaza?? Yes, obviously we need to vote for him, but it’s crazy that criticism is labeled as astroturfing or attempts to sabotage his chances.
I really hate that every time someone criticizes him, some dumbass replies with "Yeah well Trump is way worse"
Yeah no shit lol, just because I hate the current president doesn't mean I'm automatically selecting the deranged orange.
That's why I dislike "approval" polling. I haven't approved of most of the people I've voted for. That's the point of our system: You vote for people you hate and they do things you don't like.
Looks at what happens when people vote for someone they like. The bigots coalesce and you get Trump.
Yeah, bigots get a candidates that they like and they went to the polls with a big smile on their face. They had a reason to vote. Everyone else? "Here, have this old out-of-touch jackass that we pushed through the primaries by having all the other candidates drop down right before super tuesday, while keeping Warren in to split votes with Bernie, and having all our buddies in big media tell everyone about the supposed miracle comeback from biden". Covid won 2020 for biden, but he thinks he's hot shit. The closest thing to hot shit about him is what's in his diaper.
Also why the fuck are people working for free lmao
Have you never spent your spare time contributing to something you care about? I spend time contributing to open source code and Wikipedia, previously I've spent time building stuff to make a local park nicer. I could definitely see myself spending time campaigning for a political party if I felt the future of my country depended on it.
When you're doing something like that, spending time on something you have a passion for together with others, it's typically more fun and fulfilling than tiresome. You should try it some time.
If you want to see any of your political goals come to fruition, volunteering is by far the best way to do that.
Volunteer for local campaigns often. Participate heavily. Consider becoming a citizen lobbyist.
I love the work I do for Citizens Climate Lobby, for instance.
https://citizensclimatelobby.org/
I’m upset too, but there is more than one issue in the world. These people need to put things in perspective. If Trump wins, America is literally over.
So, genocide is a "single issue" which means it should be ignored? How can you hope for any semblance of change if you start by overlooking literal genocide
I don't. I gave up hope a while ago. Feels nice.
You balance it against your other priorities
It isn't overlooking it to accept that there's nothing we can do about it. There will be no viable candidate who opposes Israel, and that's the unfortunate truth. There are still significant differences however between the two candidates, and I don't want the one who's likely to start a domestic genocide to win.
There's blood on our hands, and we don't have a way to wipe it off. I'd rather accept it and try to move forward than try in vain to clean them.
It isn't a literal genocide, but a figurative one, which is the source of the disagreement.
0.0044% of Gazans have been killed. The US killed the same net amount of civilians during the Battle of Mosul, and Gaza is three times as dense as Mosul.
This number will go up, because this war is being brutally waged, and Israel does deserve criticism for it. But words matter, and genocide is a dumb word to use because it has actual meanings, and requires specific intent
?????
The population of the Gaza Strip is just over 2 million (2.048). The amount of Gazans killed in the past three months is 22600, as of today. That is, by my math, 1.13% of the population that has been killed in those three months, or 1 out of every 100 people.
To add to this, genocide (as defined by the UN) does not just include directly killing a particular group:
So in addition to killing 20k+ Gaza civilians, Israel's response has displaced countless others with their intense and indiscriminate bombing (see points #2, #3, possibly #4). NYT and other sources claim that up to 1.8 million Gazans have been displaced, which NYT claims is 80% of their population. This is in addition to the conditions Gaza was already being subjected to, such as being denied water and electricity (#3) by Israel.
The evidence overwhelmingly shows that this is genocide. "Figurative" is such a sleazy doublespeak way of excusing the behavior here.
Edit: sorry my link should work now
Textbook Case of Genocide is as literal as you can get. From a Jewish Holocaust and “genocide” expert.
Weird because words still have meanings even if this person disagrees.
Pretty sure he knows the definition of “genocide” better than you.
Weird because I don't
Lol… how humble of you. Dunning-Kruger epitome y’all.
Too bad trump and Biden are the only two people so I just have to be pro genocide.
You don’t have to. You can have your own views and make the best decision available to you given the circumstances.
So you're saying not to vote? Or that we should write-in a vote for a non-genocider?
No I’m saying that you can vote for someone and not agree with everything they stand for because that’s the best option you have. We do need reforms in America, but is that a reason to not vote or to wait around until all the conditions are perfect for you to vote your ideals?
So if I disagree with one pro-genocide politician less than the other, I should support a pro-genocide candidate? That's not reasonable, it's falling prey to a false choice. I hate to paraphrase the Declaration of Independence at Americans, but at least the founders understood when the course of human events made it necessary to dissolve political ties.
So what is the move? It's clearly wrong to vote for Biden and you say not voting is a waste. So be frank and say what you're thinking clearly and plainly.
They did say it clearly. But let me see if I can't help.
You can have a slap in the face
Or a rusty shank to the neck
One or the other.
If you don't pick, one will be picked for you.
I get not wanting to vote for him. I do. But not all of us get that luxury.
I'm gay. Me and my boyfriend are talking about leaving the country. He's got one last semester of nursing school. Lots of places are desperate for nurses. We can probably get out. If we do, then I can say we get to move.
If the Republicans win, it won't just be get to, it will become need to as well. Any queer person who stays is taking a big risk. But not everyone will be able to leave.
Between the push for a fascist theocracy with Trump as the dictator as he uses phrases pulled from the Nazis and gives us their plans under Project 2025, I don't get the luxury of saying "Well, let's see if we can't come back from this." When we talk about being terrified of a Republican presidency, we are not exaggerating.
This isn't a light decision to make. I hate it. Even if the dems win, we might still leave. Project 2025 will just turn to Project 2029. Project 2033. Eventually they will win. But in the mean time I have to decide between voting for Joe who supports Isreal
Or risk Trump who supports Isreal, but also supports the same thing here
It's Biden or Trump
A slap in the face or a rusty shank to the neck
Palestinians aren't getting slapped in the face. it's a fucking genocide
Thanks for proving my point even more. Feel free to argue the point or move on.
telling you your analogy is insulting doesn't prove your point at all.
If the point went over your head and you can only focus on that and ignore the rest, than take a seat. Of course the "don't tell me what to do" comment makes me think you really might not be adult enough to have this conversation.
# take a seat
# you really might not be adult enough to have this conversation
So I was right about that. Thanks.
# Thanks for proving you’re not here for a real conversation
Thanks for proving my point.
do you need help finding the block button? it's control+w
# feel free to leave.
don't tell me what to do
if the choice is leaving or voting for genocide, I'd pack my bags. I can't believe you're about to vote to send more money to Israel to kill Palestinians.
Thanks for proving you're not here for a real conversation. But yeah, if it's vote for genocide or genocide either way, feel free to leave. Guess I'll just go volunteer myself for the gas chamber.
>feel free to leave.
that's what I said
Yes it is.
If genocide isn't enough of a red line for liberals, they are the larger threat to society and worldwide safety.
Vote people that has naunces on the downballot.