this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
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Problem is he's 100% correct here. His take is more that they have not succeeded in eliminating anti-Semitism and persecution, not that Jews are inherently bad.
Kissinger was a jewish refugee from Nazi Germany, not an anti-semite.
Hate him all you want, he's done plenty of shit to deserve it, but this "context" is straight up disinformation.
Quite frankly, the ADL commemorating him makes my blood boil. To be clear, they do some absolutely vital work combatting and monitoring hatred in the US, and I have been angered by the straight-up conspiracy theories about them. They are undoubtedly a scapegoat of a diverse swath of political movements. But between this (and Greenblatt’s recent defense of Musk), I cannot endorse them.
It seems like it’s easier to pick some prominent (often Jewish) person or organization to scapegoat than to actually confront the depths of American foreign policy, police brutality, etc. There’s no point to policing people’s anger towards Kissinger. He deserves much worse. But I cannot be fully comfortable with where it leads.
ADL has always been captured by right wing interests. I find the Southern Poverty Law Center to be much more reliable when it comes to what you think the ADL should be doing.
The “right” of this country hates the ADL as well. They’ve pretty consistently fought the American right and extremism in this country, from the red scare to the civil rights movement to LGBT rights to Trumpism, internet radicalization and the alt-right in the present.
What I would describe as the root of their hypocrisy is cowardice. That’s what I see when they give powerful people like Musk and Kissinger a free pass. It’s a short walk from cooperation and dialogue to outright complicity. To say it’s been ‘captured’ almost absolves it of responsibility; these are clearly choices made by the leadership, not puppeteered by outside influence.
Literally the article from The Onion "we're standing with Israel because that's less complicated"
I donate to SPLC on occasion. I think they do good work.
I explicitly endorsed their anger. My issue is with the disinformation.
That wasn’t directed towards you. I endorse it as well. What I am reticent about is the disinformation and the role he plays in said dialogue.
Listen to the Behind the Bastards Podcast on him. After the war he was a prosecutor in Germany for the de-nazifaction. He strongly identified with Nazi officers and would let them off easy.
Here's the thing, Jews can be antisemitic too, it's internalized antisemitism. Even if he was still just saying "it's the Jews' fault for not having good PR" that's not a good thing to say either. The onus shouldn't be on Jewish people to convince others not to be bigoted and genocidal towards them. Not being bigoted and genocidal towards any group of people should be a given.
What's one of the worst things he did, in your opinion? Also I don't think exact quotes can be misinformation.
How about extending the Vietnam War for four years just to get Nixon elected, costing hundreds of thousands of lives and setting the stage for the Khmer Rouge? Just for starters
There's also his ties to the Pinochet regime if that tickles your fancy
"... exact quotes can be misinformation."
sub_ubi, on interpreting historical figure quotes without the full context.
He's DEAD?!?! I didn't hear about it.
.... Yes. Happened yesterday. It's why you're saying tons of news related to this asshole.
That's out of context, don't be a pedant. Kissinger's full quote is included and it's representative of his meaning.
Vietnam or Cambodia, probably
“Exact quotes can be misinformation” I’m glad we agree. In all seriousness, it’s not exactly hard to intentionally or even accidentally mischaracterize a direct quote by taking it out of context.
As for the worst things, I think the Bangladesh genocide is not mentioned enough. Though if you type into google “Henry Kissinger [insert any country here]” you’ll definitely find something horrific.
They said disinformation, not misinformation. Disinformation and misinformation are both information that's incorrect. The difference between dis-and-misinformation is intent; disinformation is spread with the express purpose of misleading.
A direct quote can be taken out of context or manipulated to convey a false message.
If I quote you out of context, I can make you appear to hold any position I'd like.
That's a classic disinformation tactic. Happens in every political campaign.
You probably don't do a lot of things IRL that would make masses of people potentially very angry at you and hunting for ways to demonize you.
What?
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