this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
334 points (98.3% liked)

politics

19119 readers
4881 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Have you noticed the rush of House Republicans calling it quits in the last few weeks?

Rep. Ken Buck (R-Colo.) announced his exit Nov. 1. He explained that to be a member of the Republican House majority means putting up with  the “many Republican leaders [who] are lying to America, claiming that the 2020 election was stolen.”

Buck is predicting that even more House Republicans will leave “in the near future.”

The day before Buck said good-bye, House Appropriations Chair Kay Granger (R-Texas) also quit. Granger had been a leader among House Republicans who prevented the far-right, election-denying Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) from becoming Speaker of the House.

Also in October, Rep. Debbie Lesko (R-Ariz.) said she was quitting. “Right now, Washington, D.C. is broken,” she said. “It is hard to get anything done.”

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] thisisawayoflife 217 points 1 year ago (7 children)

This isn't a victory. They will just be replaced with Trumpites.

[–] [email protected] 86 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Trumpite replacement candidates have been losing close congressional seats to Democratic challengers so this may open up some pathways to retaking a majority.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's a risk though. Many people vote party line. It will depend a lot on what district or state the seat is in.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

I'm not saying get complacent, but looking at the all the elections from 2020 on, it's less of a risk & more of a pattern.

[–] Chainweasel 30 points 1 year ago

Exactly. The ones that are closer to being moderate (there are currently no moderate Republicans in the house) are leaving. They're less crazy in general, so not only are there fewer Republicans to push back against the MAGA crowd, it leaves spots open to be filled by even crazier Republicans.

[–] paddirn 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, I feel like the sinking ship is a "sane Republican party". We're just going to see more Boebert's, MTG's, and Jim Jordan's in Congress now, which will lead to even more dysfunction and gridlock.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

They know that they will be primaried by MAGoos, and will lose.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The fact that there's even a debate to be had about whether it's a victory just shows how fucked up our system of government is—in this case, our electoral processes. Government policies in a democracy should be highly predictable based on what's popular with the voting-age public, but instead, the policy effects of something as minor as some people retiring are so unpredictable we may as well be trying to read the future in chicken entrails.

[–] thisisawayoflife 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think part of that reason is due to the fact that half of Congress has an arbitrarily capped headcount and we're no longer able to represent the popular opinions of the constituency. Last I checked, we should have something like 3x the representatives in the house that we have currently.

We also need to ditch the electoral college. There's no reason to have it any longer. We won a civil war that forced the South to start evolving beyond chattel slavery to prop up their economy, there's no need to continue with that farce.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The numbers I've seen are that if the House wasn't capped it would have around 10,000 members.

I agree with your points but I don't think they go far enough. Approval voting (or RCV) and proportional representation are needed.

[–] thisisawayoflife 7 points 1 year ago

Oh for sure, I've advocated for that for several years. Here in multinomah county, Oregon USA, we went with a version of RCV and our next election will be run that way. There's a lot of detractors, and while I personally would have preferred STAR voting, I think almost anything is better than FPTP.

You're right, I was off by a factor of 10 or so on the rep count.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Do you want to take a guess which party is making RCV illegal & already has done so in Florida?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

We have computers and Internet and broadband. We could figure out 10,000 representatives.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

the whole federal government leans toward rural conservatives. every state gets two senators regardless of population. there's a ceiling and a floor on house reps, so big states are underrepresented and little states are overrepresented. the president is picked by the electoral college, which favors smaller population states. SCotUS is picked by the already biased president and the senate, which has the heaviest bias.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Rats fleeing a sinking ship that will be replaced by bigger, shittier rats.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

That is why the system needs to be transformed into a multi-party system. From now on, both parties will become more and more extreme.

[–] thisisawayoflife 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've been voting in elections since the 90s and it's always been this way at least since my dad was voting in the late 60s.

Breaking away from two parties is great talk, but there seems to be a lot of pushback from folks that are, for over reason or another, married to FPTP voting. We aren't ever going to move past the two party system until FPTP is thrown in the trash heap and private monetary political donations are banned outright.

Also, no idea why anyone down voted you.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Guess which party is trying to outlaw other RCV & already has in Florida?

[–] FlowVoid 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Did you like the chaos of not having a House Speaker as a small faction turned against the majority and held the entire chamber hostage?

If so, then you would love coalition politics because that's a regular occurrence. If you consider the Freedom Caucus as a separate party in coalition with the GOP, then their antics will be familiar to anyone living under a multiparty system.

Multiparty systems don't solve the problem of extremism, they normalize it. In Italy, Israel, and now the House, leaders must appease extremist factions to stay in power.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

We need to get away from American politics and look at how coalition governments work elsewhere in the world. Yes, they can be messy, but it forces the parties to sit down and TALK to each other and make some concessions to make it work.

Just like marriage. Both people are no longer single. They are now living together, they have to make concessions and agree on a common set of rules, norms, etc. The same thing happens in a coalition government, the parties make concessions to make it work and agree on a middle way. That cannot happen in a two-party system.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Right. Coalition governments tend to have a few crazies around the fringes. The difference is that they stay at the fringes, because more reasonable heads are collaborating to form a majority. You don't have the current situation where the loons are dictating everything while being made up of about one half of the majority party.

[–] FlowVoid -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Loons dictating everything while being barely a fraction of majority is exactly what you have in Italy and Israel, which are among the purest examples of multi-party democracy.

Italy's leader is now a literal fascist, and Israel is run by a right-wing nutjob bending the knee to nutjobs who are even more right-wing than he is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What you're seeing are outliers. Take a look at this list of coalition governments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_coalition_governments

There are plenty of functioning European countries (since we're talking about the US) that have functioning and "normal" coalition governments.

It also depends on the parties that won and the system used to elect these officials. For example, if the most left-wing party came first, but the other two centrist parties came second and third, if the most left-wing party wants to govern, it will have no choice but to make some concessions in order to govern and put policies on the table that all parties will agree to.

[–] FlowVoid -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes, you can add Hungary and Turkey to the list of fascist-enabled coalitions. And more where open fascists are elected to parliament, like the Dutch PVV and the Austrian FPO. These serve to normalize fascism even if they remain outside of the ruling coalition.

Meanwhile, two-party governments have basically no elected representatives from openly fascist parties. If third parties were viable, David Duke would be in Congress.

[–] FlowVoid -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If you want to look at how coalition governments work elsewhere, you need to look at Italy and Israel. Those are among the purest multi-party systems.

In both countries, it is true that some parties sat down and "made concessions". But in both countries, the parties were the mainstream right and one or more fringe fascist or outright racist parties. As the price of staying in power, the mainstream right "conceded" that open fascists and racists have a legitimate place in a ruling coalition.

In a two-party system, I am at least thankful that extremists tend to paralyze government, not empower it.

[–] thisisawayoflife 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The failure of the two party system, unfortunately, is the fact that one party is always the leader. In the case of the US, it's the GOP. The GOP has successfully taken control and shifted the Overton Window in the country further and further to the right since 1945. It will never reset back to an equilibrium with the structure that we have currently. Electing a Democrat only loosens the noose, it doesn't remove it.

[–] FlowVoid 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Disagree. The GOP candidate won the national popular vote only once in the last eight presidential elections. They have not passed any significant national legislation in that time. Meanwhile Democrats have enacted health care reform, climate investment, and now pro-choice laws.

The GOP can only hold on to power via voter suppression / electoral tricks, and that strategy won't work forever.

[–] Nastybutler 2 points 1 year ago

I respectfully disagree. I think the GOP will keep marching towards the far right, but that will cause the Democrats to move to the center

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

There's nothing extreme about the Democratic party. Get some fucking perspective.