this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2025
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The old norms weren't necessarily good.
They worked fine in the 90s/00s. Social media and smart phones has just come in and created hyper-polarization since then. Human beings aren't designed to be able to handle getting news so quickly from such a wide variety of (dubious) sources.
Worked for whom? Not queer people. They couldn't get married until 2015. Sodomy was not federally legalized until 2003. You could be put in prison for having sex with another person of your gender before that. Even if it was in the privacy of your own home and was by mutual consent if someone wished to press charges. And vast numbers of people tried to prevent both of those things from becoming the law of the land.
They were norms and they were not good and I had no respect for the people who felt that sort of oppression should be maintained. And I told them so.
Queer people were oppressed by the social norm of not judging people for their political beliefs?
Yes. Because of people were judged more for voting to oppress them, maybe progress would have been made sooner. I'm amazed that isn't clear to you.
That's literally how they started becoming more accepted in mainstream America. People were shamed when they were being bigots.
I'd argue that attempts to force people to change their beliefs too quickly has led to a conservative reactionary backlash in recent years.
Recent surveys are showing an increase in people, in particular young people, harbouring intolerant views vs even 10 years ago. I think that suggests that the maximalist progressive rhetoric on social media is turning people away from progressive causes.
Creating a more tolerant society is a frustratingly slow process where the general public gradually become acclimatised to new ways of thinking. Forcing it creates a backlash because people need to feel like they arrived at their ideas themselves. There used to be an acknowledgement that it was a mutual process which is missing from the debate today.
Yes, and part of that process is shaming people for voting for bigots.
Which is how it also worked with people in the 1960s. I'm not sure what you think people fighting for civil rights did in terms of voters, invite Dixiecrats over to sing Kumbaya?
I think we've both got different perspectives on this that aren't going to change so let's agree to disagree.