this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
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Mildly Infuriating

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[–] [email protected] 87 points 1 month ago (9 children)

This is not a coincidence, Apple purposefully make it painful to use anything with any of their products unless it's one of their products

[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

For W10, you install an app to get the codec, then you’re done. It’s built in on W11. Same as HEVC video which is used very commonly in piracy. Are pirates out to make it “purposefully painful” or are they just using modern codecs? Android also can save to HEIC or AVIF.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Here's the free oem app as an msix package as Microsoft removed the store link. link

(yes I did accidentally upload it to the wrong collection, but I don't think I can change that)

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yea ... no, sorry to say but this one's on Microsoft. I get it, hurr durr Apple expensive and elitist, but they know where to put up their walled garden and where not to. For example they used to have their own video container .mov but they're way past forcing something like that onto iPhone users. And even back then, the actual codec they committed themselves to in those days was H.264, a standard that's open to adoption by anybody. You can easily turn an old .mov into an .mp4 or .mkv without needing to alter the actual content of the file and that content is playable by pretty much every media device built in the last 15+ years.

HEIC isn't Apple's thing it's from the MPEGroup, also easily licensable by anybody. I guess the reason why it wasn't part of Windows 10 from the beginning is because they both came out in mid 2015. Windows 10 seems to have adopted it for viewing (and later editing) in 2018 but they make you hit a stupid download button in their store to get it so that's lame.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Yep. Lack of format support is usually to blame on the one who doesn't support the format. You can absolutely blame Apple for this too though, their apps can't open e.g. Matroska video or FLAC.

And perplexingly, they don't support uploading HEIC, their own image format of choice, on the web iCloud Photos. So there's that too.

(At this point my music library is stored as ALAC because it's well supported in both Linux and Apple's OSes. Really wish it wouldn't have to be that way though. Someone needs to tell them about ffmpeg.)

For example they used to have their own video container .mov

It's always very very funny every time someone mentions MOV, because while it's very similar to MP4, it's actually an open format while MP4 isn't (!). You actually have to pay for the MP4 standard document while Apple just gives you the MOV documentation.

Also at least taking a screen capture on macOS still gives you a MOV container, actually.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Apple made ALAC as an alternative to FLAC due to the dubious licensing around FLAC at the time.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Interesting. I can’t find anything about the FLAC licensing issues. Do you have a link?

(Also, correction — Wikipedia says macOS in general can play FLAC. I guess it’s just the Music app that can’t import them.)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I’m really not sure where I originally read it. I did some digging and I found some discussion about FLAC and patent trolls on a few forums, including the Talk page of the Wikipedia article, but I haven’t found anything concrete.

It might be that the patent troll thing was just a rumor!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Ah, alright. Thanks for looking!

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

well there ain’t no more licensing issues now are there

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yes they are no longer scared of the licensing enough most modern Apple devices do have at least some FLAC support.

Also ALAC is a free and open source codec which also has wide support.

And with a tool like FFMPEG you can easily convert between the two and they are both lossless so there is no data lost in the conversion.

So really just use whichever you like it really doesn’t matter.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

since you seem to be knowledgeable about this, i wanna ask: do you think one should use .opus or .ogg as the file extension for OPUS files?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

I think both work since opus is the codec but ogg is the container, but personally I’d probably go with .opus because it’s more descriptive.

Btw Apple’s ALAC and AAC files are typically stored in an mp4 container but with the m4a extension to mark it as intended to be audio only (although it may have a video track, which usually is used for album art).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I wouldn't even know how to hold a local music library on macOS these days. The app that used to be iTunes is now just called Music right? It's way confusing for me but I also don't daily drive the OS anymore. I have my stagnant library in Subsonic which in itself is a stagnant product but you know how it is with Spotify these days.

I didn't know MOV has a more accessible license than MP4 but yea MP4 in itself is hardly what one ever wanted to hold their content in. All I know about MOV is that back in the XP days obviously Windows couldn't play them out of the box. Not that WMV (lol) was any more desirable. I guess most of my stuff back then was AVI.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I wouldn’t even know how to hold a local music library on macOS these days. The app that used to be iTunes is now just called Music right?

Yeah. I have a local library consisting of some albums I bought, some which aren't on streaming services, and some other stuff such as game soundtracks + also use Apple Music streaming. They complement each other really well.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Do Apple still sell Music in that app?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

They do actually, the iTunes store still exists. I haven’t used it though since while it’s DRM free at this point, it’s not lossless.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (2 children)

HEIC is a much better-compressed format than JPEG that all Androids support; iirc JPEG XL (kinda dead) and Google's WebP are the only other big-name formats with better photographic compression. Windows was the only major operating system that chose to have consumers separately pay the patent fee, none of which goes to Apple. Since Windows 11 22H2, HEIC images work out-of-the-box.

[–] Squizzy 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Webp breaks my balls, save a pic from online and it saves with the chrome logo and then doesnt work.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

It's kinda paradoxical. It's undersupported simply because people don't like it because it's undersupported. At least all browsers can open it well.

[–] Retro_unlimited 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Back when I was on windows I would rename .webp to .jpg (or was it .png, it’s been a long time) and it would open. Now I’m on Linux and it just works.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Better-compressed in saved Mbytes, but comparing images, that compression somehow looks more...fake. Hard to describe how.

[–] Psythik 33 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This is not an Apple thing. Android phones use HEIC by default as well. This is a good thing. HEIC uses smaller file sizes and has fewer artifacts than JPEG.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

None of my 3 Android phones used HEIC by default.

[–] Psythik 2 points 1 month ago

Which phones and how old are they?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I just plug a cable from my iPhone to my Linux mint laptop and view/transfer what photos I want through my file browser… seems real easy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You could use KDE Connect and do it wirelessly as well. Who needs cables for anything but charging these days?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I use the cable to charge my phone. Am I the only person still doing this?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I was mostly joking, but KDE Connect has made phone-to-PC transfers much more convenient for me. I've only tried it between Android and Linux, but once connected, it basically nounts my phone as a drive that I can browse or copy/paste to and from.

Generally, I only use a cable to charge, and I rarely need/want to transfer files at the same time as I want to charge.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That looks pretty good - might investigate if I can use it without WiFi, i.e. just using mobile data.

I’m a bit weird as I’ve never had any IT training but have been using all types of computers for about 40-ish years. Back in the day I had a psion 5mx running epoc OS. To transfer a Word (Not to be confused with MS’s Word) file I had to convert it to .txt or .rtf and then save it to a compact flash 8mb memory card. Remove that card from the psion, plug in the CF card reader to my iBook (dual boot OS 9.1.2 and Mac OS X) and import the text. For some reason these files were always read only so then you open a new Jotter file and copy and paste the text over. Absolute ballache. Easy file transfer is a holy grail of digital living.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I learned of KDE Connect on here a couple months ago. I don't use it a ton, but it's really convenient for a few things. File transfers are easy, and you can send your clipboard between devices. That's been useful for when I'm communicating with someone on my phone, I can look stuff up on my PC and share URLs easily.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Thanks for all that info and the recommendation. I’ll give it a go.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Someone tried to send me a picture they took and it looked like hot garbage until they sent it over email. Not because it couldn't be sent without feeding it through a potato first, because Apple wants a worse experience for anyone not in their ecosystem.

When they are the oddball in the group though, it just makes iPhone's look like a worse option.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Leaving aside that this one is Microsoft’s fault, how is it painful? Do you even have an iPhone? And if so, how often do you move images to your PC from it, without those images going through an intermediary service?

[–] n3cr0 -2 points 1 month ago

However, they still forget that working with their products is the worst pain in the arse.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Same thing with the M4A music format. My Mac struggles to read MP3s in most programs (other than Preview). I have to convert them to M4A if I want to import them anywhere.

[–] paraphrand 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Preview does not play MP3 or AAC.

And what’s a program that’s not accepting of MP3 files that generally works with audio?

You seem to be a bit confused.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I don't think you understood my comment. My Mac just hates mp3s. Programs like Audacity and Audio Timeliner always struggle with them unless I convert them to m4a first. Never was an issue on Windows. Preview will play them but that's about the only program that doesn't hate them.

[–] paraphrand 7 points 1 month ago

Preview is an app on macOS for viewing and editing images and PDFs.

According to the Audacity manual it supports MP3. But you need to install additional software for AAC (M4A).

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/importing_audio.html

So it’s strange that you are struggling with this. It seems something more is going on here…

Also, just in case it was confusing: M4A is just a file extension used to indicate AAC audio in an MP4 container.

That’s a bummer that AudioTimeliner is struggling with MP3 files. Small independent apps like this usually depend on outside libraries to play back audio. And looking at the version history, it looks like the author has had to make multiple updates to fix playback support over the years.

I see that AudioTimeliner is niche software that has been around for about 22 years, and it’s cross platform. It seems normal to me that it would be picky. Audacity on the other hand, something weird is going on.

I work in higher education, so I understand how relying on niche software like AudioTimeliner goes. I’m sympathetic.

But there is a lack of precision in what you are describing, and your symptoms are directly counter to the Audacity documentation.