There are downsides with downloading their app just to input bad data, but it's a fun thought.
edit: While we're at it we might as well offer an alternative app to people.
I posted in [email protected] to collect recommendations for better apps
The post: https://lemmy.ca/post/32877620
Leading Recommendation from the comments
The leading recommendation seems to be Drip (bloodyhealth.gitlab.io)
Summarizing what people shared:
- accessible: it is on F-droid, Google Play, & iOS App Store
- does not allow any third-party tracking
- the project got support from "PrototypeFund & Germany's Federal Ministry of Education and Research, the Superrr Lab and Mozilla"
- Listed features:
- "Your data, your choice: Everything you enter stays on your device"
- "Not another cute, pink app: drip is designed with gender inclusivity in mind."
- "Your body is not a black box: drip is transparent in its calculations and encourages you to think for yourself."
- "Track what you like: Just your period, or detect your fertility using the symptothermal method."
Their Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@dripapp
I don’t want to victim blame but if using an app is optional and it could get you in trouble with the law (regardless of how bad the law is), you should not use it.
Having said that, as a dev, please pollute data as much as possible.
Management needs to learn how valuable good data is and good data comes with proper consent (most people wouldn’t share their data if they could opt out).
These apps are very helpful for people who have irregular cycles or who are family planning. I relied heavily on a similar app in high school, because my monthlies weren’t monthly. I was able to share that data with my doctors to help better understand my body.
This really indicates a need for self-hosted solutions.
Absolute worst case you could always keep track of it as a raw text/markdown/excel/Libre calc/whatever your preference is. You're not going to get any predictions or useful data out.
But it would at least provide a record for your doctor if need be. And as long as you encrypt the device you store it on, or the directory its stored in, it's relatively safe to do so.
How does this work with non technical people?
This is a legitimate concern.
A teenage girl who is looking to track her cycle is likely not educated on data security - as someone who works with teens, Gen Alpha is shockingly tech illiterate. They are going to go into the App Store, type “period tracker” and download the first thing that pops up.
Non technical people are not raccoons, they can use a text file.
The number of people I deal with at work that have no idea what a file is...
And forget about folders.
I CAN'T FIND MY DOCUMENT!!!!
Okay, where did you save it?
I DON'T KNOW, I JUST CLICK SAVE LIKE ALWAYS!!!
*remotes into workstation and clicks save only to find the file was saved in their temp directory*
I had that conversation hundreds of times when I was doing desktop support...
Why would you blame them if they have all those "conveniences" like the default save location, file managers focusing on pics to click and and not directory structure, and so on. Of course they don't know, they don't know they have to know and thus don't think they could choose or something.
These things were not invented for computer-literate people. The way they were being made in year 1999 they were usable for common folk.
Blaming normies as people who can't do things is delusional. Modern UI\UX, which is plain stupid and unprofessional, is the problem. Normies are fine. They can be taught to navigate a paper book, right? Then they can do this.
By the way, I still remember my fury when auto-complete suggestions, AJAX search on webpages, default locations for saving files and other such things started becoming the only considered way to do anything. Because I knew where this all leads. It's not hard to imagine how a person who've never had anything else will form their habits.
And not only these "simplifications" are everywhere, but also they UI\UX has become more cluttered everywhere! It's an unusable mess, and it being that is justified by having some "convenience" magic that makes it even bigger mess.
This is why Windows should have remained a shell for DOS. On Unix-like systems the competition between various desktops slows down this degeneracy. That's what they are trying to solve with Wayland, so that people could only use Gnome, KDE and a couple of half-functional compositors with too long config files to set up with my ADHD.
Sometimes I feel like they are, or maybe I'm the raccoon but yes
Most probably cannot, especially in an organized way
I teach community IT.
They really can't.
They don't know what a text file is.
They don't know what a file is, but they can use an app store, to download an app, create an account, log in, and interface with the UI to load data.
Got it
Yes, actually. Downloading apps, making an account, logging in, and using an app are all things they have done before. Opening up Notepad on their computer (if they have one) and saving a text file then navigating back to it later and opening that file is something they probably have never done before.
Right, they never opened a pdf file, or any other type. Nor they know how to write as well
Got it
Coming from someone who worked tech support for some time: There are lots of people with no grasp of basic computing concepts working office jobs in which they sit at a computer all day. Some even highly educated and specialized. lawyers, managers, marketing consultants, insurance salespeople... young and old. They can use Word, and Outlook, and Chrome, and phone apps, but the concept of a file or folder, or utilizing files and folders to organize information, are alien to some. Doesn't help that some (especially mobile) OS's do a lot to obscure that layer from people, and people can often get by with rigid workflows or by calling tech support a lot. Not judging them. Well at least the ones who were nice to me. I don't know how to change my oil. I mean none of the people I'm thinking of did either. But I don't know how to do whatever lawyer managers do all day(meetings?). I realize there is some self selection in who calls tech support every day, so having worked tech support might have skewed my perception of the average office worker.
Did a stint in tech support, and had a fucking lawyer call me because his brand new laptop wouldn't turn on. The charging cable was sealed in the original plastic bag.
It seems some people are just completely unable to form reasonable thought-chains when it comes to technology.
Are you older than 10? Can you express yourself as such?
What, you reached the end of your argument chain? Incredible.
What comes next? Come on, splurge yourself, the possibilities are endless.
I did specify a text file. And yes, they've been doing the second one since they were 5. Not all tech skills are transferable.
Write it down on paper or put it in a word document or excel spreadsheet (or FOSS equivalent if you don't have Office 365).
From a medical perspective, a handwritten journal with dates and notes about the amount/consistency of the flow as well as associated symptoms would be the most useful. Having irregular periods that last for 3 days with very heavy bleeding would have a very different diagnostic approach than irregular periods that last 3 to 5 days with normal bleeding and horrible cramps.
A potentially good option if you're on Android is putting it in your secure folder. It's basically just a sub directory for all your files, notes, and pictures, but it an encrypted form.
So if you're technical enough to understand jow to enter a password (most people), then you have an easy to use option. Just don't forget your password, and don't set it to something easy to crack. It's the same rules for any other password.
I'm sure there are similar options for windows/mac/ios
But if you're a more technical user, by all means it is in your interest to encrypt the whole thing.
https://lemmy.world/post/21961202
Period tracking is a very good tool for understanding your health. Issues may be spotted very early in some cases.
If it's required for preventative healthcare, the blame is solely on the exploitative app operators for any data safety concerns.
That's not great advice for people who weren't afraid of law enforcement in the past and are now feeling exposed due to data they already gave away.
Not to mention: a lot of people don't really understand how technology works. They just use the app without even thinking where that data goes. Like yeah, it would probably behoove those people to educate themselves on the technology they're using, but I certainly don't want them to face unjust legal repercussions just because Republicans hate anyone with a vagina.
Most data already provided won't be useful if they stop providing the data. Generally the concern is for miscarriages/abortions, so just change the data to indicate you were having a regular period and then request a data deletion/account close/stop using the app is actually pretty much as good as it's gonna get.
Legit only comment so far to not just say "PAPER EXISTS1!1!1!1!" So props for that.
Can I ask how polluting the data will help? Most apps that don't care about privacy can probably identify people with zero issues. I bet people are giving these apps location data etc.
I don't know what you mean by good data comes with proper consent. Like, ideally all data was offered with proper consent, but how does that make data better or worse? If anything, data given without consent is likely to be more wholistic/unedited since they were not given time to redact/remove info. If someone stole my phone and took all my data, they would have "better data" than had I been informed this would happen and given time to wipe my phone.
It makes data less reliable.
How do we know if a certain profile is genuine vs someone dicking around. Or mostly genuine and the person didn’t do some malicious compliance for certain parts of the app they don’t care about.
If it becomes a social trend and someone gets caught, it would be easier to say they lied cause they wanted to do a tick tock challenge.
When someone wants to help the data collectors then they would do more proper hygiene to their profile, keep things up to date and give honest feedback. Whereas someone like me never gives consent for data without being forced, so I always try to give as little and lie as much as I can.
I guess the assumption I made was that practically everyone knows apps and websites track them in some shape or form (even the least tech savvy person knows websites get total amount of visits), so “acting like no one is tracking you” isn’t ever true to begin with. Especially given this context for a period tracking app.
Appreciate the reply. I guess I see how conceptually that makes sense, but in practice I don't see it helping someone actually accused of anything. If a woman in a red state is brought up on charges and her app data backs that up and the excuse given is "I was lying when I added that I was pregnant" I don't see that really making a difference. I guess it technically makes it more plausible, but I'm not sure it's moving the needle as much as would be needed in that case.
If my doc asked me what my diet was like I would try to give accurate info but if I needed to input my latest meal every time I sent a text, my phone would think I only ate ice cream. I guess I struggle to think of an app where I would give accurate data if given the option so I just assumed people would lie if asked honestly for it. I still am not sure most apps would do better if they were more transparent, but that probably speaks more to the scamminess and predatory nature of apps than anything else. There would be more paid only apps for sure.