this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2024
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[–] GuyDudeman 138 points 1 month ago (4 children)

So stupid. Just use Mastodon. No algorithms. No billionaires. No monetization. No bullshit. And some really great folks, too.

[–] Corvid 165 points 1 month ago (4 children)

No algorithms isn’t a selling point to the average user. My Mastodon feed is kinda sad and boring, if I’m not on top of it I’ll just miss interesting posts that happened in the days I didn’t open the app.

Bluesky custom feeds really help with that, while still providing the chronological no-algorithm view as your main feed. It’s just a more interesting experience for people that aren’t chronically online.

[–] [email protected] 68 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Yep, discovery is still a major pain point for pretty much every Fediverse platform. Probably the biggest issue the Fediverse faces right now, IMO.

Part of it is due to technical limitations due to the way ActivityPub/federation in general works. But another big part of it is (what feels to me like) a stubborn aversion to convenience, a trend I see a lot in FOSS dev communities. When you have devs that would be content reading a news feed off of a .TXT file passed to them on a 5" floppy, and users who want features on their platform, you end up with the situation we're in, where it's impossible to convince the mainstream user to migrate. If the mainstream user doesn't already know who is even on the platform in order to follow them, and has no effort-free way of discovering accounts to follow, they're not going to stick around. Especially when on just about any Mastodon server you join, your local/global feeds are almost all politics and high-level tech discussion.

I think that the average user would be supportive of FOSS and the Fediverse in general, and probably likes the idea of a non-corpo platform where they have more control over their feeds and their content. But I feel that it's not worth trading away discovery or "algorithmic" tools for most users.

I think if Mastodon (or a Mastodon-adjascent platform like Misskey or Pleroma) could find a way to develop an algorithmic recommendation engine that respects user privacy (perhaps basing recommendations on a file stored on the user's account, which they can modify/backup at will), we could see a sizable increase in Fedi users.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There's a major section of mastodon users who like mastodon because it doesn't have any recommendation algorithms. Both from the side of "I don't want to be told what to click on" and the "I don't want an algorithm surfacing my posts in a way I'm not in complete control of"

This might curse it to forever be the platform with the smaller number of users, but the nice thing about activitypub is that there may be other services/clients that will be willing to take up that mantle for those that want it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Couldn't there be an implementation thay leaves everyone satisfied?

Sort of like implementating a new optional tab for discovery and allowing users to choose whether their posts appear on it. The implementation should of course be fully honest without dark patterns, though due to the lack of profit incentive it shouldn't be difficult to achieve a satisfying implementation.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

I don't think it would last long as a clean implementation.

The problem with having a completely open algorithm for discovery, you give spammers an instruction manual for how to consistently get to the top of the rankings.

Eventually these systems would always get abused and become completely filled with useless nonsense.

An alternative is to have the discovery completely exist on the client side, but I'm not sure how that would even work given the way activitypub works.

Personally I think any social media recommendation/discovery system is a dark pattern.

[–] rottingleaf 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

When you have devs that would be content reading a news feed off of a .TXT file passed to them on a 5" floppy

As a perpetually overloaded autistic person, yes please.

Seriously - something like federated Hotline would be so cool. Distributed - even better, of course.

OK, dreaming.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

I'd want the floppy disc to be a standard size though. You can't just chop a ¼" off like that. It won't work.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Follow hashtags, not just people. That makes your timeline much more interesting.

[–] Mbourgon 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Whatever interests you! Personally I'm following hashtags related to board games, specific programming languages, etc...

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

If the developers could fix search, it would go a long way in improving Mastodon.

[–] rottingleaf 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No algorithms.

Could we please use words for their actual meaning?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

How would you say "no obscure algorithm to determine your timeline, hiding posts of people who follow and showing posts of people you don't" without having to write a full paragraph each time?

[–] rottingleaf 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

"No algorithms" is a worse answer to this question than "no timelines", "no posts" and "no people".

"No trickery" maybe. "No recommendations" is another.

[–] logi 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

"Algorithmic timeline" might be appropriately specific?

[–] rottingleaf -1 points 1 month ago
[–] nutsack 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I very much appreciate the technology and philosophy behind Mastodon, but the content discovery on bluesky is much better. the feeds and the "popular with friends" tab are great. being able to click and see who someone is following is also quite good for discovery, and this seems to be broken for me on mastodon. on mastodon all i have is the wall of everything.

[–] GuyDudeman -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Weird. You don’t use the search function?

[–] nutsack 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] GuyDudeman 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There are absolutely mastodon servers primarily for dick and balls.

[–] nutsack 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] GuyDudeman 1 points 1 month ago

You want some links? I can get you links.

[–] PriorityMotif 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I didn't understand the appeal of following individuals on social media

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It's like subscribing to a YouTube channel if you understand that. Some people consistently post interesting content so by following them, you will never miss out.

[–] nutsack 2 points 1 month ago

yeah I'm hilarious for example