this post was submitted on 19 May 2024
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[–] masquenox 33 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Because (so-called) "libertarians" aren't.

The term "libertarian" has been hijacked in the anglophone-world (starting in the US, of course) to essentially just mean "fundamentalist capitalist" - they are right-wingers who have been immunized from reality and mindlessly support only "liberty" as it applies to private corporations and their interests. Therefore, it shouldn't surprise anyone that you can find these (so-called) "libertarians" anywhere you find neo-nazis and the KKK.

In the non-anglophone world, the term libertarian still holds it's original meaning - a socialist... or, more specifically, an anarchist.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (3 children)

It does seem to now mean "people that don't want to pay their taxes".

[–] masquenox 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I can't think of anything more spoilt and privileged than taxes being the only thing you have to whine about.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Aha, well, do note that taxes were essentially the cause of the American Revolution.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Libertarians do tend to support the idea of negative liberty which would include ideas like freedom from compulsory taxes (that's not to say that all libertarians are of the same opinion). To say that it is only that, however, is quite reductionist, and rather ignorant.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The best description for the modern "libertarian" I've heard is that they're just conservatives who smoke weed

[–] masquenox 1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The best description for the modern “libertarian” I’ve heard is that they’re just ~~conservatives~~ fascists who smoke weed

Now I agree.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I don't think they're fascist, just selfish in most cases. They take the "me" in "Don't tread on me" too literally, and only care about their own rights and their own needs, fuck everyone else's.

Their Venn diagram of "Things the government should provide/allow people to do" and "Things I personally need/want to do" is just a circle, and they won't lift a finger to try to shape the government to work well for anyone else.

[–] masquenox 4 points 4 months ago (14 children)

One of the vilest messiahs of US "libertarianism," Murray Rothbard, associated with Holocaust deniers and argued for the pig to be allowed to torture suspects (not people convicted of anything - suspects).

If your roots are fascist, you are fascist. US "libertarianism" is about as fascist as Heinrich Himmler.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Probably 99% of self described libertarians don't know anything about that, or actual libertarian rhetoric in general, they just want to smoke weed and not pay taxes for stuff that doesn't personally benefit them and they think that's what libertarianism is

[–] masquenox 1 points 4 months ago

Now that lemmy is overflowing with liberals - people who get their ideas of what political concepts actually mean from CNN and "Law & Order" reruns - I am constantly having to deal with people who don't know where the ideologies they cling to come from. or even means in reality.

So I guess these (supposed) "libertarians" isn't alone in that regard.

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[–] DMBFFF 1 points 4 months ago

Not all libertarians smoke weed.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

"Libertarian" became popular in the US when it started being incorporated into various science fiction novels. Probably the most famous is "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress." I love the book as science fiction, but the society the author creates depends on so many caveats that even the author has the old style 'free' system fall apart as soon as an actual government [as opposed to prison regulations] is formed.

[–] masquenox 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

“Libertarian” became popular in the US when it started being incorporated into various science fiction novels.

They got their que from right-wing economic grifters like Rothbard and Hayek - people whose beliefs wouldn't be out of place in Nazi Germany. That's why olden days US sci-fi writing was a festering hole of fascism - nothing else could have produced people like Heinlein.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (27 children)

Heinlein was a huge friend to Philip K. Dick, and any number of Jewish science fiction writers. He was one of the first writers to have an African woman as a hero, one of the first to have a transman character. Stop using the word 'fascist' for anyone on the Right. It dilutes the term.

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[–] DMBFFF 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I got mine from the Libertarian party, a few decades ago.

They didn't seem too fascistic back then.

[–] masquenox 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Of course they didn't, eh? Of course.

[–] DMBFFF 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

They didn't wear brown, black, or blue uniforms.

They wore no uniforms.

One seemed to like Dead Kennedy's and Black Flag.

[–] masquenox 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

They didn’t wear brown, black, or blue uniforms.

Most fascists don't.

One seemed to like Dead Kennedy’s and Black Flag.

And up until very recently a whole bunch of them thought Rage Against The Machine was theirs, too.

[–] DMBFFF 1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

They seem most powerful in uniform—I guess that's what helps ties those little sticks together into their mighty hammer, FWIW.

I don't like Rage Against the Machine.

Part of it is musical, I suppose.

Part of it is they support tankies and a group that massacred indigenous peasants in Peru.

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