Asklemmy

Sounds like your circle is growing apart. It happens. In this particular case, some personalities have grown enough to not be compatible with some of the others.

I'm not good at situations like these, so I don't really have a solution for you, other than accepting the fact that your circle of six will soon no longer be six. Stick to the ones who are still reasonable, and with time the toxic ones will either remain so among themselves or will push away the part of the group that is more in line with how you're perceiving the social dynamic.

Take 1: If I understand correctly, several of them work for the same startup. Frankly, those places are KNOWN to be toxic hellholes because they tend to be run by adulation-seeking narcissists from an upper middle class (entitled) background. Shit rolls downhill and all and your friends may just be picking it up subconsciously and don't have the ability to really manage the emotions that this is causing. In a phrase: you might end up feeling sorry for them.

Take 2: Are you recently out of high school or recently out of college? Few people really remain friends after this because they get pulled into different directions and their lives change. This causes things to fall apart, but it is nobody's fault.

Take 3: These people have always been toxic. You didn't notice it before or didn't think it was a big deal. Now you notice it and think it is a big deal.

Be honest and open about it. Like next time he does it just say like that it’s not cool. If people see the problem guy getting called out then they’ll reflect on themselves.

There isn't any easy way to approach this. I have a little* experience with this.

You're going to have to talk to the whole group. Whether it's one on one, the entire group, or a smaller group with the offending party (or parties) excluded. Then as a group you are going to have to deal with the individual(s) with the solution.

Solutions can be ejecting the problem person(s) from the group, breaking up of the group, you leaving the group and having to establish a new group of friends and keeping contact with a couple of these people (there are probably more solutions but these are some examples).

What you CAN'T do is sweep it under the rug as it will make the group more toxic and harder to repair any damage that has occurred leading to more lost friendships. The SOONER this is dealt with the better.

Hope you get everything sorted.

Next time you're all together, and every time that guy says something off putting, you should say something in response in front of the whole group. It doesn't need to be mean, or condescending, or even conflictual. You can make it a question (always open ended!), something along the lines of, "How does talking shit about people serve you?," "It's pretty weak to talk shit about someone behind their back. What are you afraid of that you won't say it to them directly?," or deflect with humor, "This was maybe funny the first 5 times you said it." If one of the other guys says something, you could say, "Did Johnny tell you to say that?", or "Did you learn to talk like that from Johnny?"

You should absolutely make it implied through persistent comments like this that you are observing a problem with how they act. It sounds like the other guys are following the leader, so try becoming the leader and model the behaviors you value.

Also though, you live in a different time zone now, and people change over time. It might also just be time to put more distance between yourself and those guys and find some new friends.

Imma give you a simple guideline that will serve you well all your life:

don't focus on what people say, focus on how you feel after parting

If someone makes you feel worse off than before and on a repeat basis, start to backoff and if they make you feel terrible, fucking run!

This rule will save you much heartbreak, pain, and misery.

Edit: there must be room for grace cuz we all fuck up or say fucked uo shit sometimes so def pay it forward but grace should necesarily be limited and on a schedule for the most part

Edit: also be careful, if you're the shitty/toxic person, you're gonna feel shitty cuz someone sees thru your bullshit and are healthily resisting that. I can't help there so the mileage may vary but a little self-awareness + time with a good healthy friend + the occadional AITA with a burner account goes a long way.

It sounds like a fairly typical male environment. It will probably be better to talk one on one with the main offenders and gently bring up the topic when they engage in the sort of behaviour that is objectionable.

It's tough and it happens. Sometimes it feels to me like it's harder to pick up on nuance over voice chats.

If I were in your shoes, I'd try to meet up with all of them together in some place over the holidays to try to talk it out.

You can be upfront and honest about what you like and don't like about the person in question's behaviour, but think ahead of time on how you characterize it so that it's not offensive to them. (Tip: focus on the fact it's the behaviour that's putting you off, not the person)

If they're receptive they're worth keeping around, but if they continue to be belligerent then have a discussion with the rest of the group that this friend is changing the group in a way you're not comfortable with and figure out a solution from there.

When people in my friend group say dumb shit, I don't attack them for it. I mildly question it. I'll respond with "eh... I dunno about that." or "you sure about that?" or "that's not cool, dude." something mild. Give them a chance to save face. If their behavior keeps up, I amp up my responses in strength. "that's seriously wrong." or "knock if off" in a more stern tone.

If that doesn't work, I'll state that I don't really like what's going on and I don't wanna be around that. You can't control others, and so I imply I'm thinking of leaving. If they still change their behavior then maybe it's time to leave.

People change over time, you've changed, they've changed. Maybe the season of this friend group has passed.

I'd say just hang out with the one guy you mentioned who seems to be on the same page as you. Start your own group and add some new people. If anyone says anything just say you didn't feel welcome in the old group anymore. If they're really that toxic towards each other then the whole group will probably fall apart soon anyway.

So is everybody just snapping at each other more? Like is the friend group more angry? I'm kind of confused at the nature of the toxicity. But it does feel like the pressure of society making people a lot more tired and stressed, quick to snap. I've notice the same thing with some of friends of mine, and it's unfortunate =(

I've read through a good chunk of this thread and I think most people are correct in that you should initially be facing this head-on, particularly with the problem dude in person in front of the group. As a secondary action, I'd also recommend tightening your availability for full group activities afterward if it doesn't resolve itself. What does that look like? Maybe one or two gaming sessions with the full group anymore, but the couple of chill dudes in the group can be separately invited to play something with you, maybe a new, different game. If the problem dude tries to put you on blast for doing this in some way, you have the ammo of "I've tried to give you a chance to be less toxic. You've refused. I'm trying to maintain friendships with the people who are considerate about my feelings. I'm still making an effort with you and you keep showing me that you're a bad friend towards me. How much of your bullshit do you think is a reasonable amount for me to have to put up with before I'm justified in walking away?"

I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but if you've seen him talking about the others behind their backs, and you're not online with them as often as the others, then he's almost certainly talking about you behind your back more than he does with everybody else. And any decent person in the group is aware of this and will respect you for speaking up. Just don't do it yourself in your subgroup with the chill guys. If they bring it up, just say something like "guys, let's not worry about them, let's just focus on having a good time together right now."

Hang out with the old people that are chill and make sure do things and go places where you can meet new people. Take a class in some sort of hobby you’re interested in, join a community group / team for gaming or a sports, etc.

Hmm, not sure exactly what you mean by the one who talks, but normally the type I'm thinking of try and be 'special' in some way by having secrets with each person. It gives them a sense of control by presuming they have some unique information shared with only certain people. How to get them out of that mentality is a trick, but breaking that illusion of control is a big part of it.

Is it possible the the holidays are potentially making some of your friends more on edge than usual?

I feel like this isn't really something Lemmy can answer, because we don't know your group. I personally think you should just draw it into the open, get everyone to vent out, and try to keep it from getting any worse than it already is, but I couldn't say I know how bad it actually is at the moment. Maybe talk with the one guy who has noticed the changes as well and see what he thinks.