this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
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A Boring Dystopia

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For context I want to make these into little flashcards. I'm thinking something a little bit like https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/.

Thoughts on how good this is as it currently stands, and how I can improve?

1. Conditioning

From cradle to grave, white America is the only America we know. At school, we are made to learn about primarily white events and history. Through history/social studies class, we are drip-fed trivial stories meant to convince us that white men are "good guys". Conservatives are the product of state-sponsored propaganda.

"Because we've always done it this way" are the most dangerous words you'll ever hear. Look at George Floyd. Look at all the school shootings that occur on a seemingly monthly basis. Clearly, the status quo isn't working. The fear of change is holding us back. Conservatives fear change.

2. Blind patriotism

American exceptionalism is dead... and that's a good thing. Conservatives use rose-tinted spectacles to look at our history. They see racism and oppression as a key part of our "glorious past". To criticize progressivism is oblivious to the fact that just because an institution is centuries old, doesn't mean it's fit for purpose in the 21st century. Conservatives are stuck in the past.

3. Cognitive dissonance

Excuses, excuses. "But they do so much for charity", "both sides have the same problems", "but they seem so nice". Supporters of Trump and similar demagogues happily turn a blind eye and make whatever excuses necessary to justify their beliefs. FOX and other conservative pundits have dismissed Trump's racism as "politics". Trump loves his golf clubs full of rich white men, completely denying the decline of the old order. Conservatives are in denial.

4. Pressure to conform

"Soft" conservatives may only support the GOP due to the pressure to conform. Consider the example of a parent who might not want their children to take part in a celebration at school even though everyone else seems to be involved, so the children stay silent.

Another factor is that living/growing up in a conservative community, like a small rural town, can also create pressure to "fit in" and not ask questions. Conservatives are conformists.

5. Ignorance

Ignorance is bliss: many conservatives demonstrate a remarkable inability or refusal to question what they are shown, e.g. they see evangelical pastors posing for photos with homeless/impoverished people but don't wonder or want to think about the context: they're unlikely to have spent over an hour, and then they go back to their million dollar megachurches and sports cars in a jiffy. Pastor Johnny doesn't really care about helping the poor, he just did a PR stunt to improve his image. Conservatives are blissfully ignorant.

6. Servility + low self-esteem

Servility is the tendency to act as if you don't share equal basic rights with every other person, i.e. the government. Conservatives have low self-esteem, believing those with the surname Trump are better human beings. Servility is also a fear response: the fear of being outcast for having different views. Conservatives are fearful.

7. Establishment profiteers

The Establishment describes the dominant social group or "elite", e.g. private schools like Phillips Exeter Academy, the local megachurch, media pundits, business elites, Congress, etc. It is a system of self-preservation and self-enrichment. Those who benefit from it have no reason to undermine it, no matter what the different parts secretly think about the GOP. Conservatives are determined to protect the Establishment.

8. Misconceptions

Conservatives have misconceptions, e.g. they believe conservatism is good for the economy and that Democrats want socialism/communism. They believe white male straight cishet supremacy is part of American identity and that it represents Americans values. They often ignore evidence that challenges their beliefs.

9. Magical thinking

Conservatives only dare to dream of having that much authority, wealth and privilege. They watch FOX and absorb the carefully staged narratives, viewing the Trump family as respectable celebrities. Conservatives find the idea of rich men in suits hopping between DC and Mar-A-Lago romantic. They're dreamers who only see what they want to see.

10. Underestimating the influence of the GOP

"Soft" conservatives and the apathetic don't know enough about the GOP. They believe "we're in the 21st century" and don't know about things like tax havens, filibusters, gerrymandering, media influence, etc. And so, the GOP often subverts the law goes under the radar as Trump refuses to be questioned and conservative media provides lots of distractions.

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[–] ChonkyOwlbear 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A big one missing is Propaganda. It isn't just coincidence so many people have fallen into Trump-led fascism. It is an intentional plan by extremists to lie to the public to achieve their own goals. For some that goal is white supremacy. For others it is to destroy the government so corporations and the ultra rich can rule. Sometimes it's both or another stranger motivation.

[–] T0rrent01 3 points 1 year ago

You're right. I suppose that this could fall under "conditioning", but it would probably need to be expanded to specifically refer to and call out "propaganda".

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

12 reasons...

That's only 10. Where's the last two?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A quick first note, there are only 10 listed (that I can see). I also think it's missing a few important reasons:

  • Identity politics. Similar to conditioning, but more personal; someone who is deplorable but thinks they're great sees someone just like them or who's an archetype that they like, and they get excited to support them

  • Literally just to make others angry. So many conservatives start with a mild distaste for democratic characteristics and then get off on the "power" to make people like that upset. They enjoy the rise they can get out of people they dislike, and they don't care if the way they do it is based on fact or reason. Further, some seem to dive into the maga personality just because it's ability to polarize is the closest thing to power they have ever known. It gives them the ability to compete and connect with lunatics, and to childishly anger anyone who would otherwise annoy them.

  • Deification. Similar to servility, but based on willingness and impressionability rather than fear. Some folks see that problems exist and then just believe demagogues who say they are the only and all-powerful ruler who really knows what's going on and can solve things. Once they believe that, any claims from opponents that they are wrong just "demonstrates" that others don't understand and only the demagogue can be trusted.

  • Contrarianism and a desired victim narrative. The GOP has successfully pushed the idea that, even at almost 50% of the population and with enormous economic control, they are victims of Democratic control and conspiracy. By being contrarian to all things Democratic, they are fighting the ruling class, who are the source of all evil (other than brown people and foreigners, who are also Democratic tools). So it's not important to be factual so long as they are contrary to Dems.

[–] T0rrent01 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sorry, I originally had 12 but decided to get rid of 2. The first one was "Status Quo", which I merged into "Conditioning." The second was "Religion", but I ditched that because it would be very unfair to yoke them with religious people, or even just Christians, in general, and I couldn't think of a way to reword it to specifically refer to only those kinds of Christians.

Thanks for helping me come up with further reasons, though!

[–] Adalast 2 points 1 year ago

I would take the religion aspect to the place of Christofacism or leave it in the government with an explanation of their Theocratic leanings. They sow the seeds of other non-white religions trying to push their beliefs into our laws (the whole Shrea laws propaganda debacle from like 10 years back). All the while, they try to force white Christian laws into the books that are blatantly the same thing they fight to stop from others.

I would also include their views on compromise being a weakness. This is a huge part of why liberals struggle to get anywhere with them. The instant you are willing to yield an inch to them, they see it as them having won and they lose respect for you as a human being, not just a political opponent. I have tried being as bullheaded and uncompromising as they are on my politics and stances and it seems to have the desired effect. If they don't blow up, they usually break and actually stop arguing. I don't tend to do it with my parents, but my parents also have realized that they cannot "convince" me of their politics and actively avoid it because they don't want to fight. I have managed to hit them hard enough with a realistic view that it has had effects, not an argument, a single rebuttal to something so dumb like "minimum wage jobs are for high school students" being rebutted with "cool, so all fast food places should close for lunch when high school students are in school? And if they don't, the high school students deserve to be paid less than their adult counterparts for the exact same work?" My father changed his views on how much money fast food workers deserve that day.

[–] reddit_sux 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is also that if you don't agree with everything you are not conservative enough. And if you are not with them 100% then you are against them.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago

You can swap sides and this still applies.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I think in many cases it's because the opposing side spends time creating lists like this explaining how dumb the other side is. Nice work counting to 12, BTW.

[–] needthosepylons -1 points 1 year ago

I'm a bit skeptical, but I suppose it all depends who you want to talk to.

I think you're focusing a lot on "negative" traits (lacking smth) and maybe overlooking "positive" traits (being genuinely white supremacists, belonging to a radical, wannabe revolutionary group, etc).

Other than that, it's fine, but it's just my 2 cents