this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
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So this isn't meant to be a post bashing the devs/owner of OpenSubtitles. This is meant simply as awareness.

A few months ago I signed up for the VIP tier at OST ($5/mo for 1000 downloads a day) for a bit to populate my catalogue of videos with subtitles as my father uses my Jellyfin server and he's lost a lot of his hearing. I also wanted to support the development a bit. At first the service seemed to be downloading a bit, but then it stopped. I waited a few days and it would download at most one or two a day (despite a few thousand videos not having any subtitles). I look around online and found that OST had changed their API and the Jellyfin plugin still needed to catch-up with a newer release. No big deal, so I just waited.

Then the update released which specifically stated that the changes to the API calls were made. I waited a few days, nothing. I uninstalled the OST plugin and reinstalled, still nothing.

So I figured something was wrong either on my end or the server-side, but I didn't want to bother getting into it. I've been planning to rebuild my Jellyfin server with newer hardware with HW acceleration for decoding and encoding. I sent an email to OST support explaining what I've been seeing and asked if I could get a refund.

The person who responded asked for logs so that they could help troubleshoot. So I obliged.

Email response from OpenSubtitles support confirming there was an issue

They said it wasn't much help and to get even more logs. Which I provided again.

Screenshot of user CeeBee providing logs via email to OpenSubtitles support

I even removed over 14 thousand "[query]" lines to make the logs more readable. They said there wasn't anything there that was useful, and asked me to try again. I indicated that Jellyfin has a scheduled job that checks for missing subtitles and pulls as needed once a day. But I said that at this point I'm just looking for the refund.

A while passes by but then I get a notification that the subscription is going to be renewed again, so I cancelled before that happened and reached out again about the refund. At this point it was more about the principle of the matter as I originally just asked for a refund and that got side-stepped into a support request.

Then I got this as a response:

Email response from OpenSubtitles support being aggressive and accusatory

Which resulted in this:

Email response from OpenSubtitles support saying "I'm tired of you" and deleted my account

I waited over two weeks to write this post. I wanted to wait and see if somebody replied back to me with even just an apology or something. If they had originally told me that doing refunds is hassle for them I would have let it go. But telling me off and then deleting my account is just... special. I was astonished at the response and cannot fathom that being the response from any company taking payments for a service.

And I'm not holding a grudge of any kind and I get it, I used to do IT support and some days can be tough dealing with annoying emails. But in my defence all I asked for was a refund because something wasn't working. In any case, I just wanted to bring this to the attention of the Self-hosting community so that others can make more informed decisions. To be clear, I'm not advocating anyone to pull support. In face I think they should have more support as it's an invaluable service. Despite the treatment I still plan on getting the VIP subscription again at some point after I rebuild my Jellyfin server. But I also don't think that customers should be treated like this.

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[–] xantoxis 149 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Oof. Devs, don't talk to customers or users like this. Ever. You have no idea what's actually going on at the other end of the conversation. "Sorry we couldn't help you," is all this person needed to say, but now a whole bunch of people are going to stay the hell away from OST paid subs.

[–] deweydecibel 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is why you always have a customer service team. You need a layer of people that can actually have a modicum of respect for the user base between them and the devs, or at least the illusion of it.

There's some FOSS software I'd be happy to support financially if it weren't for how rude and unhelpful the devs and their chosen spokespersons are. I won't name them and start fights, but if you're here on self hosted, you might have an idea who I'm talking about. I know it's hard work and they're doing it for free but the poorly-conceiled contempt for users that have anything to say except "Thanks, your the best" is a very ugly look, and it's unfortunately pretty common. It's not endearing, makes me less likely to want to help out.

[–] imapuppetlookaway 17 points 1 year ago

True. I once considered subscribing, some years ago, but customer reviews of OST convinced me not to. Looks like i made the right decision.

[–] [email protected] 147 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Just fyi, as a sysadmin, I never want logs tampered with. I import them filter them and the important parts will be analysed no matter how much filller debugging and info level stuff is there.

Same with network captures. Modified pcaps are worse than garbage.

Just include everything.

Sorry you had a bad experience. The customer service side is kind of unrelated to the technical practice side though.

[–] CeeBee 26 points 1 year ago

Ya, it's a good point. I've actually never had to deal with a client/customer providing logs before. Aside from one system that I built which would collect everything in the backend and provided a tidy zip file to be emailed. I'm used to getting the logs myself and was trying to be helpful without thinking about that.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

Yeah, as someone in a tech job whose primary function is "parsing and interpreting logs" sometimes even the repeated flood of seemingly useless logs can be helpful. If nothing else, they explain why there aren't any useful logs and that can guide how I respond to the problem.

[–] deweydecibel 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I can't remember exactly what it was (Emby?) but I distinctly remember one time having my ticket closed because they scoured the log and found mention of a torrented file. They basically had rules that stated if the logs showed evidence of certain things, they'd outright refuse to assist you. Not sure how common that is though.

Sometimes there's also just file or directory names I'd rather not reveal. So I'll do a find/replace with some generic titles. But nothing gets deleted outright.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

It's totally fine to bulk replace some sensitive things like specifically sensitive information with "replace all" as long as it doesn't break parsing which happens with inconsistency. Like if you have a server named "Lewis-Hamiltons-Dns-sequence“ maybe bulk rename that so is still clear "customer-1112221-appdata".

But try to differentiate 'am I ashamed' or 'this is sensitive and leaking it would cause either a PII exfiltration risk or security risk' since only one of these is legitimate.

Note, if I can find that information with dns lookup, and dns scraping, that's not sensitive. If you're my customer and you're hiding your name, that I already invoice, that's probably only making me suspicious if those logs are even yours.

[–] ikidd 49 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Why alter the logs? If they want logs, they probably know how to deal with logs.

For $5, I can't say I'd bother going back and forth with you about how to send a raw log.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The support person even said they don't see any queries in the logs, you'd think that would be a clue to send the logs including queries.

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[–] CeeBee 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Why alter the logs?

I was trying to be helpful by removing 14k irrelevant lines from a very large, and incredibly verbose, log file.

For $5, I can't say I'd bother going back and forth with you about how to send a raw log.

This hardly was the issue or point of the post.

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[–] filister 42 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You stated that you are a Dev yourself, but then I was expecting that you should have tried to check their API and make the calls with curl, Postman, Insomnia or whatever, but apparently you never tried.

Perhaps the problem was in the third party plugin you were using from the beginning and they cannot really be responsible for that.

I am pretty sure they have monitoring on their API backend and can spot a problem, as I seriously doubt that if the problem was with their API you would be the only one experiencing those problems.

[–] CeeBee 32 points 1 year ago (27 children)

You stated that you are a Dev yourself, but then I was expecting that you should have tried to check their API and make the calls with curl, Postman, Insomnia or whatever, but apparently you never tried.

You're absolutely right. I didn't. Because I wasn't invested in troubleshooting it. I have a full-time job, a family, etc.

The issue here is not about what wasn't working. The issue here is being told off when simply asking for a refund.

The support person has even acknowledged that my profile was showing no downloads.

I am pretty sure they have monitoring on their API backend and can spot a problem

They are, as evidenced by the screenshot the support person shared showing the number of API calls. And they actually did have a problem with the API, which required an update to the plugin, which is all laid out at the start of my post.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Their Download stats look very sus though. Maybe they process their logs three days late, but that drop does not look pretty.

[–] CeeBee 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That drop was from when they had modified their API which required applications using the API to update. That's actually where my story begins.

Edit: actually I checked my email chat again and it was a "nasty bug" that caused the issue. And I think it was that bug fix which resulted in the API changing.

[–] lwuy9v5 35 points 1 year ago

I don't know why everyone is giving you shit about modifying log files. That support person was an asshole

[–] obinice 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What's the deal with this support person being unaware of how to use basic capitalisation and punctuation in sentences?

We learned that when we were 6.

Deeply, deeply unprofessional. If I had an employee that was this bad at presenting themselves to those outside of the organisation, I'd either insist they learn how to write properly in their own time and apply it at work, or possibly let them go.

It may seem harsh, but they write like a child, and that would reflect very badly on us as a team and organisation in every interaction they had, every day.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The space before punctuation thingy is called "Plenken" in Germany and still sometimes used by people who learned on typewriters. Same thing with repeated spaces or dots... to indicate pauses.

But yeah, pretty unprofessional.

[–] anonono 23 points 1 year ago (6 children)

you mentioned it twice so I fear the worst, please tell me you didn't remove 14000 lines manually using a text editor.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Text editor or not, when you're asked for log files provide THE LOG FILES. Don't edit out lines you think are irrelevant. You don't know what's irrelevant or not. If you did, you could fix the problem yourself.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah this is one of my pretty peeves.

When I ask you for the logs I don't mean cut out the one or two lines you might think are relevant.

Please provide the entire log file unless instructed otherwise.

I have no reason to believe the bits OP removed were relevant. In fact it sounds as though none of it was. But that's not always the case and support people or the actual developers are just as capable of using the search function in a text editor to locate the relevant parts of a log file as anyone else is.

Please provide the entire log, this "helping" concept causes now issues than it solves, trust.

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[–] ylph 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What's wrong with using a text editor to remove lines ? In vim for example :g/pattern/d or :g!/pattern/d with regular expressions is a powerful tool for removing lines in bulk if needed.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Probably not helping much, but try bazarr if you havent. I have more than one source for subtitles there and feels like its working great. Ignore this if this is opensubtitles issue

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[–] diffuselight 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Whisper is perfectly fine as a subtitle generator you can run at home and subtitle a movie in minutes

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Have you tried switching to an opensubtitles.com plugin instead? I switched my kodi to that one and now it works great without harassing me for logins.

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[–] SheeEttin 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you didn't get the refund, chargeback.

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