Artificial scarcity (invites) and VC funding
this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2023
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Forgive my ramblings, but here's the main differences I see, from a community perspective:
Bluesky's for people who loved twitter circa 2015
Mastodon's for people who loved the format but hated the way the platform made use of it. The community is FOSS-focused and anti-corporate.
Bluesky folks are anti-corporate, but they still want their social media to be on a single platform and tend to dislike federation
Mastodon folks tend to be in smaller circles and more tech enthused
Features-wise, Mastodon kills the algorithm in favour of chronological timelines and lists, while Bluesky embraces algorithms, allowing people to even make their own algorithms for the platform. Bluesky's AT Proto uses "DIDs" to identify users, which are associated directly with a domain^[or subdomain]. This means that when federation does eventually happen, usernames will just be @my.domain.com instead of ActivityPub's @[email protected].
Federation's still not enabled so I have no clue how things will look and feel on that front, nor am I familiar enough with the protocol to make any claim about how versatile it is. ActivityPub is flexible enough to be a Twitter clone, a reddit clone, a blogging platform, a youtube clone, a twitch clone, a goodreads clone, or several other formats. AT Proto's currently only proven to work for a Twitter clone.
I would argue that most Bluesky users don't necessarily dislike federation, but rather have no idea what it is, or what the larger Fediverse is.
Someone I'm in a Discord group with wanted an invite to bluesky because it was more familiar to him than Mastodon.
He pretty much wanted a like-for-like replacement for Twitter, though to his credit he had already tried Mastodon before dismissing it out of hand.
It's not that he disliked it exactly, but he wasn't that interested by what he saw so didn't stick with it - to each their own
Bluesky folks are anti-corporate
Bluesky is a for profit company with a crypto person as the CEO and Jack Dorsey on the board so good luck to them I guess
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You can just click Follow and start following someone. You don’t have to perform a copy-paste dance to bring the username back to your instance and do the following there.
Wasn't that fixed - or at least ameliorated - in the newest upgrade of Masto?
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A place where normies can feel at home, knowing that they won’t feel out of place not having a fursona or favourite Linux distribution and won’t be scolded for not using alt text or some inadvertent picoaggression. Also, the promise of clout.
What? The constant wave of fury porn and Linux propoganda spam isn't what people join a social media platform for?!??!?
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An advertising budget
It really comes down to this. So many time's I've discovered a cool FOSS project years after it's existed simply because I hadn't thought to search for it. Imagine if Linux had the advertising budget of Microsoft or Google. The "Year of the Linux Desktop" would have arrived in '99.
This aspect is one thing that makes me optimistic about the fediverse. A communication platform without ads and where the spread of information is dependent on network effects and word of mouth, means that it's much harder for a company to force themselves in front of everyone at once using dollars.
Not a lot. Simpler signup flow and ecosystem, more twitter-like timeline and features, better discoverability and some communities that aren’t on Mastodon. FOSS diehards can mince about it all they want and blame idiot users, but the simple fact is people who don't live and breathe technology still have lots to offer a social network, and Mastodon continues to alienate them in design and in community. Lemmy does too.
I like Mastodon and Lemmy, a lot. I prefer them to the alternatives. But I just signed up for BlueSky and I’m enjoying it a lot even routed through the Mastodon bridge, simply because there are more diverse communities there, whereas my Mastodon feed is 90% tech and dev people despite spending hours and hours hunting for people I used to follow on Twitter. Getting big App.net flashbacks.
I think a ton of what's wrong with lemmy and mastadon can be attributed to the bias of the user based. They skew very tech literate and liberal. Simple one click sign up and smooth onboarding into a user experience is the only way you will get the mass appeal of something like Twitter, reddit etc. I don't necessarily think that's a good thing honestly.... A person is smart, People are dumb.
Like many cases of "success" lately. A well connected and rich parent.
I like Mastodon and the Fediverse, I really do, but I just can't deny that all the good posters that made Twitter enjoyable moved to Bluesky. My Mastodon feed is nothing but journalists, activists, developers, but very little fun shitposting.
See, that's exactly why I like Mastodon and want nothing to do with Bluesky. Sounds like we're both happy this way.
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- No HOA complaining that you didn’t CW a picture with eye contact or food or alcohol or matter
- More witty people from X
- No drama about who is defederating with who
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Easier sign up. On BlueSky you can just sign up for an account and go. You don't have to worry about picking an instance or anything like on Mastodon, which can be a bit off-putting for someone not familiar with federation.
It’s ridiculous how much Mastodon advocates downplay this.
I strongly prefer Mastodon over the alternatives, but the onboarding experience is BAD for the average user.
Onboarding to Mastodon is actually identical to BS/Threads now. They've made huge improvements. It's a shame that most of the news media's experience discovering Mastodon for the first time was in Oct '22 because it's left a bit of a "techie" aura around the whole thing they're still trying to shake off. If Mastodon was then where it is now, I don't even think BS or Threads would try to compete.
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Look, on Mastodon you have to pick a server. That's just too hard to do.
That's why email never took off.
unironically this.
You think 'oh it's not that hard to just pick a sever', but it is. Most people look at it and go 'well my favorite influencer or friend is on X, but I can only make an account on Y. Can I still communicate with them?! Which advantage has sever Y over server Z? etc. It's it's ONE barrier which is one barrier too much for many people (on top of all the new things they have to learn anyway when they decide to get on a new social network)
Most people don't know the ins and outs of how these federated systems work, like you do - and it's scary to them to be confronted with a question about system architecture, when all they want to do is read news or memes.
And it's interesting that you mention email, because I'd argue email has the exact same problem. Depending on which country you live in, you'll notice that most people use primarily one email provider per region/country. Why? because their friends use the same email provider. You know how many people told me "well, I don't have email, but I can give you my Gmail if you want...?" Email just 'took off' because it had nothing to compete with for 20 years and businesses depended on it as well.
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Sarcasm aside, you're not wrong. The top result for "Lemmy" (that isn't about Motörhead) is for Join-Lemmy.org. I'm a tech-minded person, but when I saw this "join a server" crap instead of a front page, I decided that I'm too old and that it's too much effort to figure out. Now imagine someone who isn't tech-minded wants to join. They'll fuck off even sooner than I did.
Hell, the only reason why I'm here is because I decided that Imgur isn't a good alternative. They're no better than reddit (i.e. no 3rd party apps). So I decided to stop being lazy and figure it the fuck out. Others might not be as motivated.
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Bluesky is to Mastodon & ActivityPub, what Matrix is to XMPP/IRC... a completely over-engineered system, ignoring all well established international standards and run by a for-profit entity with venture capital funding.
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Feeds/timelines are first-class citizens in the AT protocol and are decoupled from account hosting.
On Mastodon, your timelines are computed by the same server that hosts your data. Consequently, signing up to a server to have an account on the fediverse is the same thing as joining a community. You follow the servers rules and share the same local timeline as everyone else on that server.
On Bluesky, feeds are arbitrary, fungible and provided by any server, and it can be computed/curated/moderated however they like. So communities are "built" around feeds rather than around account hosting providers.
The AT protocol also has "real" account portability (though I have not seen this demonstrated in practice https://atproto.com/guides/overview#account-portability). On Mastodon, account "portability" is a delicate dance that requires the cooperation of both the origin and destination server.
Mastodon has something that Bluesky currently doesn't: real federation. The Bluesky server that everyone signs up to doesn't federate with anyone else, since the whole protocol is still a work-in-progress.
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Tho I agree with all the comments I have to say the general vibe of bluesky is more playful and fun compared to mastadon, perhaps its just my bias. But just like lemmy generally feels like a nice place to be so does bluesky- the vibe feels inviting.
I've got an account on Bluesky and I'm not sure if I agree. Like 90% of the posts I've seen on there are about Bluesky itself, there wasn't really anything beyond that.
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An artificial scarcity model which gets people excited over the chance to join diet twitter.
I hate gatekeeping so much, but what I'm about to say is going to contradict that statement so much I should probably stop typing and start this post again....
Anywhoo....
If a troglodyte can't figure out how to sign up for the fediverse, then they should stick to CorpoChat
I never got the argument that it's hard to sign up to. I think the main issues are that people want content from media entities that may not be present or welcome - legacy media etc. This could be where threads.net fills the gap but then it sounds like they will be blocked from a lot of instances.
I have worked around it via press.coop but they don't cover everything. I also follow more journalists directly than I did on Twitter. I don't miss Twitter and find Mastodon more informative but I'm sure that's because of the information I'm looking for.
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Hype & mainstream celebrities?
An invite-only strategy straight out of the early 2000s
People just join it thinking it's Jack Dorsey's next twitter.
dril
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