this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
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Is the out-of-the-box quality of desktop-focused Linux distros declining recently? (self.linux)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by xaxl to c/[email protected]
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I seem to be noticing a little bit of a trend lately that the out-of-box experience and overall quality of "mostly should just work" desktop-focused Linux distributions has declined. Usually, you could grab an .iso of distros like Ubuntu, Fedora, Manjaro etc, install it and have a decent enough platform out of the box to tweak how you liked it. There might be some hardware you need to mess with to get working, or some small configuration changes to do, but these were mostly about personal preference as opposed to having to do them just to have a basically functioning system.

I recently built a new computer for work and naturally wanted to install a Linux distribution on it. I thought I'd try out a few desktop-focused ones to reduce the need to manually configure stuff like you'd do with an Arch install. The more curated and heavily moderated package systems are exactly what I wanted on this PC as stability/reliability was more important than bleeding edge for me. However, instead of just getting something usable and smooth like I was expecting, each distro I tried out had a bunch of basic issues:

  • Fedora: issues with Flatpak (that somehow got missed by 2 separate maintainers and released), the fonts look like crap again without a lot of tweaking (AA used to just work properly out of the box) and the XFCE spin is completely broken. To even get XFCE I had to install the Gnome version then manually install the XFCE desktop and LightDM the latter of which didn't even pull in all its dependencies to function.

  • Manjaro: I can't even update this out of the box without manual intervention because of a conflict between packages on a fresh installation. The problem has existed for a while apparently. Such a basic problem in the core package management of a distribution out of the box is unacceptable.

  • Ubuntu: I tried Kubuntu (used to be my favorite) and the KDE desktop experience by default completely sucks now. Even with graphics drivers installed and tweaking the settings a bit it screen tears on my Nvidia 3080 and performs like trash. I don't know how we even got to this point when Linux desktop environments used to be the slickest thing since butter was invented.

I'm a long time Linux user (since the 90s), former Linux sysadmin and a programmer so I know my way around a Linux system. All of the above problems can mostly be fixed. However, by now in 2023 I'm expecting all of these major distributions to at least nail down the basics and I'm finding it's just not the case, in fact it feels like things have sadly gone backwards.

Update: I ended up giving Mint Cinnamon a shot after a few people mentioned it here and it ended up being good enough out of the box for me to run with it. I needed a Linux desktop that just basically worked so that I didn't have to spend hours messing with it that I could be billing for work instead and Mint gave me that, so thank you for the suggestion. It's been a real shame that other distributions are not as slick as Mint is from the start.

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[–] Cmar 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Avoid Manjaro and use something like Endeavour OS if you want an Arch based distro.

I’ve used Manjaro in the past and had tons of issues with it. The distro itself is Arch based but does not follow the same update philosophy.

Updates are stalled to apparently test for any potential conflicts, except it seems that they do not do any testing at all and just hold back on updates and cause more issues by doing that (ie package dependancy lagging behind)

Not to mention all the drama and shady stuff that was and is going on with Manjaro, I would not recommend that distro to anyone.

I’ve also used Mint, Kubunutu, Pop… and even Garuda on various desktops and laptops and never run into any game braking issues upon initial installation.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Not to mention all the drama and shady stuff that was and is going on with Manjaro

Shady stuff? I use manjaro but haven't been keeping up with stuff, it does pretty much just work in my experience

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I was looking into Arch-based environment and wondered if there is an option for a scenario where you don't have to update for a few weeks for example, because you don't use that computer or whatever. But you still want to try the Arch configurability and wiki docs for it.

From what you're saying, it's still actually all rolling release. From my (flawed? correct me) understanding it is different from Ubuntu or Fedora, where you can update an outdated OS state and it isn't supposed to break. Possibly barring changing OS versions.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 years ago

The OOTB experience of everything is declining

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago

Linux Mint gets about $10,000 USD in donations a month on average, develops the Cinnamon DE, and is based on Ubuntu LTS. It's stable, it's slick, and it gets regular updates. If you're looking for a "Major Distro", I suggest including Linux Mint in your list.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago

Linux Mint may look a bit outdated and doesn't benefit from the Latest and Greatest version of some programs (ala Arch), but it still provides an excellent out of the box experience. It's been my daily driver for a production environment for years, and I've converted older family members to use it as their daily driver without issues. (They prefer it over Windows!)

I did recently encounter a bug where it would fail to install the latest version if Secure Boot was enabled at the time of installation, but that was due to a key signing issue/expiration from upstream (Ubuntu) and the developers have already promised a new approach that would address and future-proof that in the upcoming version. It was my first time in years I hit a stumbling block on installation.

That aside, the onboarding process has only gotten better and is now outstanding. (It has a little Welcome program that walks you through setting up system snapshots, proprietary drivers, and even enable automatic security updates. It's accessible and actually helpful to newcomers.) The distribution upgrade utility is simple, works well, and does a good job of nudging when it's time to upgrade (without making you feel forced). It also anchors to Ubuntu LTS releases, which means you actually don't need to upgrade often if the feature set does the job for you. In terms of usability, I think we hit the Year of the Linux Desktop a while ago (for general productivity users).

In short, I have absolutely no hesitation in recommending Mint to someone who is either new or willing to give up some of the bleeding edge opportunities for stability, and I think it has been able to consistently deliver an excellent out of box experience for years now.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

My favourite OOBE is still https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFObbmMqwFM provided it doesn't get hung up on a CD key etc.

That said, Mint, Ubuntu are great too. Very rare that they don't work. Combined with Ventoy they're a great utility.

[–] xaxl 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Ventoy is brilliant and it's a shame more people don't know about it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If you don't know, Ventoy allows you to put lots of ISO files on a memory stick, and when you boot from the memory stick you get to select which ISO you want to run.

The only complication can be that some systems don't like it's Secure Boot signing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

the catch is that some iso won't boot from ventoy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

I haven't had that problem yet but it wouldn't surprise me.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 years ago

If you want to try Ubuntu, just try the plain Ubuntu. Has been my rock solid working distro since forever. I have no real complaints and it just let's me do my work.

[–] UnfortunateShort 6 points 2 years ago

I mean, you use Linux with Nvidia, some trouble is basically guaranteed. I've heard it has gotten better, but there used to be tons of problems and now there are just fewer tons.

As for quality Desktop experiences: There are a lot, but Kubuntu I've also tried and found to be a buggy mess and Manjaro is kinda controversial in the Arch bubble - because it's an attempt to make Arch less Arch (and buggy as well).

I'll just list some distros you might want to try:

  • Endeavor OS
    • Basically preconfigured, but quite vanilla Arch
  • Garuda OS
    • Depending on your choice of ISO, more or less heavily customized Arch
    • Providing useful tools as well as fallback options in case some update goes wrong
    • Depending on the ISO quite lightweight, but might be gamery themed
  • Sparky Linux
    • Choice between Debian Testing and Stable for more or less frequent updates
    • Debian, but more friendly toward new users
    • simple, lightweight
  • Peppermint OS
    • Debian based
    • Actually good looking XFCE
    • Unique selling point: Open websites respectively web apps in dedicated browser instances, linked on the desktop like regular apps
  • openSUSE
    • A classic; Standalone with the chocie between a rolling and a versioned release
    • Maybe a bit more stable rolling than Arch
    • Solid support by corporate software, less community support than on Arch (due to the community being smaller)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago

I just reinstalled EndeavourOS on my laptop the other day and the whole process was excellent. The only problem was with the KDE install it didn't include the Plasma System Monitor program. Otherwise everything just worked and look great.

I dont like Gnome as a DE and I'm surprised so many distros have it as the default as I think it's a terrible experience.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Mint keeps getting better and better. If you're looking for a distro that just works out of the box, Mint is the best I have found.

[–] abeltramo 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I agree that the most popular distro should work better out of the box, having said that, there are other distros that are more user focused and mostly noob friendly like VanillaOS, Nitrux and PopOS.

As for the Kubuntu+Nvidia issue we all know how hostile Nvidia is with Linux; I'm not sure we can blame the distro for that.

[–] xaxl 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Being Nvidia, I know the issue probably lies there, but I'm sure the experience used to be a lot better than it currently is.

[–] Turtle 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

On the other hand if you grab the Pop OS nvidia iso, I bet it'll just work. Had no issues with Mint either, other than having to install the driver. Based on recent installs I've done with a 3080.

[–] xaxl 5 points 2 years ago

There's no reason a desktop environment shouldn't be a smooth experience on Nvidia anyway. It isn't the most graphically resource intensive thing ever.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago

I got into Arch again after a decade long Linux break. Imho it's fantastic.

[–] themollusk215 4 points 2 years ago

I just did a full wipe of my system to try out Fedora KDE, XFCE & Budgie spins (I finally got fed up with Gnome not being what I wanted anymore after like 15 years of using it as my preferred DE) and didn't really have the same experience at all - even Fedora XFCE which you say was completely broken was working fine for me. I haven't run anything other than Fedora in a long time though so I can't really speak to the out of the box experience on other distros.

[–] fhein 4 points 2 years ago (3 children)

My wife finally decided to ditch Windows, so we put Xubuntu on her PC since I've used it in the past and it just worked near flawlessly. Several times during the first week she had to ask me to help her fix some strange issue.. The only one I remember off the top of my head is that xfce4-screensaver is broken, and crashes (and restarts) when you want to unlock your computer. Had the same issue on our HTPC and the wife's netbook which I switched to Xubuntu at the same time. Felt like constantly apologizing to her, since I've been nagging her to switch to Linux for a year, and promising that it would be great

[–] matt 2 points 2 years ago

God, I've had the same experience. For me, I installed Debian 12 and it ran flawlessly with no issues, but my mother doesn't want to use Windows anymore (she is a computer technician, so not the "web browser and email only" type of PC user) so I recommended the same as me but issues just kept cropping up all the time and it's like... how!?

Maybe it's just the way regular people use a PC vs how we might do so, and that leads to more issues, but not sure. There's just so many use cases and edge cases that keep cropping up whenever a friend or family member tries Linux that turns them back to Windows.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Give Mint a try. Cinnamon is very approachable for a Windows user and the distro as a whole has a lot of polish, it stays out of the way. They also have an Xfce edition if you really prefer it.

My wife has patiently dealt with me switching her from Fedora Gnome to KDE to other things, but Mint has worked best for her and is also easy to maintain.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I really found XFCE not beginners friendly (or maybe if your comming from Windows 98).

Linux Mint or Ubuntu/Debian Gnome is easiest desktop linux solution. Maybe Elementary OS could be a good fit too.

[–] fhein 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I meant it was 100% things that didn't work as they shouldn't, not that she didn't know how to use it. I was surprised how poorly Xubuntu 23.04 worked out of the box, compared to how well it worked for me over the years. But now that I fixed the issues for her she's happy with it.

Though both my wife and myself are old enough to have used Windows 98 :) And she used Ubuntu in university so she isn't a complete Linux noob either

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

No distros have been working as expected for me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

@xaxl Today I installed a Debian 12 system from a live usb of the Gnome version. It's out of the box and works great. I have a AMD GPU /CPU. Both supported without tweaking.

A friend of mine had trouble installing Debian because he has a NVidia GPU. But he had great success with ubuntu.

For packaging systems can I suggest you checkout pkgsrc ?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

"I’m a long time Linux user (since the 90s), former Linux sysadmin and a programmer so I know my way around a Linux system."

🤨

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

FWIW, my usual go-to for a daily driver is Xubuntu (yes, I'm odd and like Xfce). Mint is also good in my experience for "just works".

[–] hunte 1 points 2 years ago

I feel quite the contrary, I messed around with Arch and Gentoo for a while but wanted some stability and picked up Kubuntu then Fedora GNOME. Kubuntu was mostly fine, but I have to agree the latest versions of KDE doesn't feel very good to use but Fedora GNOME has been a blast. Mind you I haven't used GNOME since 40~41 but now with all the new features it just werks. My only issue with Fedora is the lack of codecs included by default but other than that I had a great time with it, no problems whatsoever.

[–] Wr4ith 1 points 2 years ago

I'm not sure I agree, but I sympathize. I needed to spin up a *nix system pretty quickly for some tests and I got fedora up in something like 5-10mins? Including all the standard bells and whistles. As an added bonus I think it looks pretty nice. Similar experience with Ubuntu and Debian.

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