this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2023

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258

CEO Who Said Safety Is a “Waste” on Board Lost Submarine (futurism.com)

submitted 2 years ago by botlt_test to c/world

47 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The CEO of the company whose Titanic-seeking submarine has been missing for nearly two days once said safety was a "pure waste."

all 49 comments

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[–] fiestapinguino 108 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I work as a researcher in the university lab OceanGate used to test their vessels. My colleague told me that they would have tests run 7 times resulting in 6 failures and 1 success. OceanGate engineers (maybe their leadership?) would chalk that up as a success and keep going. My colleague says no one in the building would ever get into anything these "morons" built.

I assume there's a fair bit of hyperbole in this, but I think it generally is matching what we're seeing. Oh, also the general consensus here is that their hull caved in and they've been dead for a while.

[–] dystop 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Jesus that's just terrifying.

[–] KneeTitts 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I highly doubt they will ever find the sub, its too small and could be literally anywhere.

edit: debris field found - https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-65967464?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64946dc7f2e5745fd8a782db&Debris%20field%20found%20-%20US%20Coast%20Guard&2023-06-22T15:50:32.421Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:021873ea-55df-41f9-9de5-926aaf985678&pinned_post_asset_id=64946dc7f2e5745fd8a782db&pinned_post_type=share

[–] BloodyFable 11 points 2 years ago

Oof, crow for dinner in 30 minutes or less.

[–] KneeTitts 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

One thing I can say is if they ever do find the sub intact, its very likely these guys recorded their last hours on their phones and we are very likely to see that at some point… talk about nightmare fuel.

[–] ThreeHalflings 30 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't think waterproof phones are waterproof at that depth.

[–] KneeTitts 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Yes if the cabin filled up with water then the data would not be retrievable. But it sounds now like they have found a debris field so the thing imploded. Best way for them to go really.

[–] wazoobonkerbrain 2 points 2 years ago

ts very likely these guys recorded their last hours on their phones

So now we know that they were only an hour and forty five minutes into the dive when they imploded.

I saw one interview on youtube with a member of the submersible community who claimed to have some inside information from people close to the incident. He said that the sub got into trouble and communicated to the mothership that it was aborting the mission and returning to the surface, before going dark.

So I am imagining the billionaires in there listening to cracking sounds from the hull before it gave way. I bet that they recorded video, and I bet that the recordings can be recovered, but I doubt that they will be released.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

To quote the article:

I mean, if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed, don't get in your car, don't do anything. At some point, you're going to take some risk, and it really is a risk-reward question.

Because passenger vehicle safety hasn't had leaps and bounds since their inception. This is the equivalent of "don't get hurt" on job sites, and has about the same results. Regulations are written in blood.

[–] heili 1 points 2 years ago

I think there is a valid point to be made that there is only so much risk reduction that can be done, and people will then either accept the risk level of the action or not. The thing that is important though is that people know what risk they are accepting.

When I learned to ride a motorcycle the instructor flat out said that motorcycling is not a safe activity. It is inherently risky, and the stakes are very high. Injuries are severe, and you're far more likely to die. You can somewhat lower that risk by wearing proper safety gear and practicing safe riding, but riding a motorcycle is not and will never be safe.

[–] slinky317 37 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Oh no! Anyway

[–] Orez66 27 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Fuck the billionaires taking submarine rides for shits and giggles.

[–] Impressive_Towel2 5 points 2 years ago

I feel the same about billionaires that take trips to space for fun.

[–] Konman72 35 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I propose that we replace the phrase "hoisted by your own pitard" with "sunk by your own submarine." Feels more modern and less like my wife will laugh at me whenever I say it.

[–] KneeTitts 13 points 2 years ago

Its too bad that idiot had to take 4 other people to their deaths with him, especially that kid

[–] Nutbane 8 points 2 years ago

We should never replace that phrase, just send your wife this simple explanation to get her on board with it.

[–] CapnAssHolo 28 points 2 years ago

Personally I have no problem with this dude being the billionaire's underwater tour manager.

[–] dska22 24 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I assume that they had quite some time to discuss the topic since Sunday, unfortunately.

[–] breadsmasher 28 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"I think I can do this just as safely while breaking the rules," he added at the time.

Doesn’t sound that out of context to me. Rules and regulations are written in blood. FAFO

[–] agitatedpotato 4 points 2 years ago

In that case Stockton is about to become an author.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Real 'leopards ate my face' kind of attitude.

[–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Not many leopards in the north Atlantic.

[–] CaldeiraG 18 points 2 years ago

He fucked around and found out

[–] Aceticon 8 points 2 years ago

Sounds like a good candidate for a Darwin Award.

[+] ulu_mulu -9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think those kind of statements shouldn't be taken out of context.

I mean, it's not wrong to say there has to be a balance between security and usability, but neglecting security measures is a totally different thing.

It's true that, unfortunately often, top managers are the ones always trying to be cheap on security, but I don't think it's fair trying to imply someone actually did by publishing a statement out of context.

This thing will be investigated for sure, let's not start a witch-hunt before knowing the facts.

[–] STUPIDVIPGUY 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You have a point, but in this case, I don't think it's really out of context. His attitude was very relevant to this tragedy imo

[–] ulu_mulu 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

But he's inside the submarine dying with the others, can he really be so stupid as to risk his own life?

[–] GojuRyu 5 points 2 years ago

Ignorance and overconfidence in one self can lead to decisions that puts one in danger. If he didn't understand the risks, overestimeted his control over the situation (as very rich people are prone to do) or simply surrounded himself with too many yes-men, then hi might not have thought he put himself in as much danger as he did. On the other hand he could also just see himself as an explorer and seeking rhe thrill as many of the dead bodies on Everest once did.

I'm sure there are many reasons he could have gone into that sub despite having been told the risk. I of course can't know for sure, but it does seem more likely in light of his comment than without it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

They're clearly not witches, as evidenced by the fact that they don't float.

[+] ech0 -19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (8 children)

So here's what he actually said:

"You know, at some point, safety is just pure waste," Rush told CBS' David Pogue during an episode of his "Unsung Science" podcast. "I mean, if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed, don't get in your car, don't do anything. At some point, you're going to take some risk, and it really is a risk-reward question."

I don't think that's unreasonable. I mean you can never go outside again to be safe but most people are gonna take a little bit of risk and go outside to get groceries or meet friends.

[–] meteotsunami 39 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There is a huge difference between acceptable risk and recklessness. Reading his interviews he was a cowboy and this was an inevitability. This was in essence a murder suicide.

[–] keanu0396 26 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

There's also the concept of informed risk, which relates to informed consent, and this can be a big issue.

For example, if I ask a friend to come for a drive with me, they'll likely say "yes" on the assumption that the car is road safe and I have passed my driving test. But if I wait until we're already on the road to tell them that the fuel line sprays petrol into the footwell and the engine constantly misfires, then they agreed without understanding the full risks, and might have decided differently if they had all the info ahead of time.

I think any "reasonable person" would refuse to enter that sub if they were given a full understanding of the risks posed, and their likelihood.

[–] meteotsunami 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You bring a great point and the one thing that boggles my mind in this disaster. Listening to the sub owner and reading his legal release, I can't fathom (bad pun) signing on and saying sign me up! It's like the same friend you mentioned told you the fuel line leaks but that's ok, because the department of highway safety exists only to reduce profits and kill fun. We could make it to our destination or die in a fiery crash, YOLO.

[–] Knoll0114 2 points 2 years ago

I guess they thought since it'd gone down and up before it'd be fine. Chanced it one too many times.

[–] cdipierr 31 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Not unreasonable, but getting out of bed and going to the most dangerous part of our planet don't really equate, you know? And when your own engineers are telling you you've made something unsafe, but you just keep going?? Well...

[–] liara 28 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They also learned nothing from a previous experience where the sub lost contact and got lost for hours. There were discussions of adding a beacon to the sub but that clearly never happened.

I guess the CEO never expected cutting corners would directly affect his life.

[–] cdipierr 20 points 2 years ago

According to that news article where it got lost for 2.5 hours, the CEO said he wasn't going to try again until summer '23. So I'm reasonably certain the sub's two attempts at diving resulted in one temporary and one permanent loss. The reporter who went on that successful dive and didn't die must feel like he dodged a bullet.

[–] STUPIDVIPGUY 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I agree it's not that unreasonable of a decision to make for yourself. I'm the same way, I do things that many people would consider dangerous while out climbing.

However he was responsible for other people's safety... and now he's responsible for other people's deaths.

[–] assassin_aragorn 15 points 2 years ago

Eh I think their answer is dishonest, and I've had way too much exposure to risk calcs at work lately. Risks aren't born equally. Getting out of bed? Ridiculously low risk. Driving in my car? Still low risk, but higher. Skydiving? A lot higher risk, although it depends on the rate at which parachutes fail.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 years ago

If it were just his life in his hands, maybe I'd feel different, but he chose to pit others life in his hands. When you do that you need to care about safety.

[–] A_A 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Thanks for the quote.
The reward for a billionaire making such a trip is to brag by saying he did something we couldn't do. Risk he took was high despite his belief.
No insurance plan exists to pay for the rescue operations of such idiotic selfish trips even after this question was discussed concerning sail boat races around the world's seas.
On the other hand, the reward for making the groceries is to have food to stay alive. Risks of death for grocery's trip is less than 1/100_000_000 (very rough estimate).
Let's put our resources and energy where it is sensible.

[–] NotInTheFace 4 points 2 years ago

He clearly missed the point where it was just wasted.

[–] scutiger 2 points 2 years ago

I'm a rock climber, and I accept that my activity involves a fair bit of risk. It doesn't mean I climb without a rope or helmet.