A place to discuss the news and latest developments on the open-source browser Firefox
pacman -S w3m
looking for conflicting packages...
Package (1) New Version Net Change Download Size
extra/w3m 0.5.3.git20230713_1-1 2,06 MiB 0,98 MiB
Total Download Size: 0,98 MiB
Total Installed Size: 2,06 MiB
:: Proceed with installation? [Y/n] Y
What's an alternative like Libre Wolf for android?
Ironfox
Fennec although it isn't hardened.
As a user who has not been educated in the field of content copyright legislation, I wonder what exactly are these new terms of service going to do.
I guess we will be seeing our old friends Iceweasel, Icecat, Fennec, etc. again.
Just be mindful of security patching
Get ready for ads as well
They removed this:
{
"@type": "Question",
"name": "Does Firefox sell your personal data?",
"acceptedAnswer": {
"@type": "Answer",
"text": "Nope. Never have, never will. And we protect you from many of the advertisers who do. Firefox products are designed to protect your privacy. That’s a promise. "
}
},
I wonder if the "never will" part is legally binding. Most companies bend over backwards to avoid making future-looking guarantees like that.
Nah. Such permanent guarantees are not legally enforceable, if a company really cares about it they'll structure themselves in such a way as to make it very hard to change by having veto voices in their ownership structure who are for such things and will not allow a change, by writing language that requires some high majority of agreement of these owners that's hard to come by to change such conditions.
At best you get it in a contract when you use the software but guess what, that contract can and is overwritten as soon as you use a new version of the software with a new contract, feel free to use the old one full of one-click machine compromise vulnerabilities forever if you'd like but in reality you have no choice but to update and accept the new contract.
Firefox already has ads. (Though you can turn them off.) As does its default search engine.
Yup. I just got one for some new Firefox feature. And Pocket has been a thing for a while, which is basically an ad engine.
I still use Firefox because I can easily disable that nonsense. I'm mostly here for engine diversity, so once a reasonable competitor exists (LadyBird? Servo?), I'll bail.
What's the best fork that's available in apt?
Wow, some promise!
Um what the fuck.
Input information THROUGH the browser and they're granted a right to that info worldwide license to use that? To use what I type into my url bar? To use what I search? To use what I type into forms on websites? This is a more all-encompassing spying license than I think even Google has. This is absurd. This is a spyware license not that of a browser. Not only that, any files I upload, their names, any files I download their names.
Maybe they'll sell information on who looks like they're doing filesharing, or porn habits, or those with politics a certain US administration present or future may not like.
This is unacceptable.
People saying "oh but it's just to use the web" well part of the way they word it, all they have to do is insert spyware/adware or AI as they commonly call it these days and suddenly oh look at that, your normal use of the browser and how the data is used includes sending it all to us or our partners for the purposes of AI/ads, etc. One tiny little change, an addition no one will remark on or notice in future and suddenly this takes on very dire implications.
Alright fine... So what are the best forks that are the most compatible with existing Firefox add-ons?
Edit: It's looking like Waterfox might be best for my needs, but open to other recommendations or tips.
According to Brody (starting at 4:16, 5:45-6:15), the new ToS/Acceptable Use Policy combo prevents you from looking at porn now.
I'm not sure if that's what they've intended, but that's the ramifications of what their changes are implementing.
~This~ ~comment~ ~is~ ~licensed~ ~under~ ~CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0~
This “You may not upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that includes graphic depictions of sexuality or violence” looks like pure madness. An online reproductive biology course is going to feature depictions of sexuality; we're not allowed to bookmark university courses with Pocket now? Many movies explore sex and violence; syncing my Netflix password with Firefox Sync, let alone streaming through “their” VPN technically “grants me access” to that. Hell, even bookstores feature “content that included graphic depictions” of all sorts of sex and violence. What kind of stone-age regression to puritanical fundamentalism is happening inside Mozilla for them to come up with this nonsense!?
Btw, anyone subscribed to Mozilla VPN should know it's just Mullvad VPN sold at twice the price.
Somehow it doesn't surprise me at all that they've banned porn. Not only that, but it sounds like they've banned John Wick movies too.
This is the future. The Internet is no longer open.
The acceptable use policy is for Mozilla systems, such a pocket or ai tools, it doesn't apply to Firefox (according to a Firefox forum response)
such a pocket or ai tools
And that, right there, is why nobody fucking wants that shit in Firefox to begin with!
(according to a Firefox forum response)
That's not legal or binding though.
They need to update their ToS legal declarations to specify that explicitly.
~This~ ~comment~ ~is~ ~licensed~ ~under~ ~CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0~
The Acceptable Use Policy contains guidelines for services and guidelines for products. The Firefox TOS says "Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations." The only part of the Acceptable Use Policy that pertains to products is "You also may not sell, resell, or duplicate any Mozilla product or service without written permission from Mozilla." Mozilla has a separate TOS for their services.
Therefore, you can look at porn in FF as long as you don't bundle FF in a Linux repo without their written permission, but you can't look at porn when using their VPN.
Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy
That sentence says you have to obey the AUP, and the AUP says what it say about porn, gambling sites, etc.
The only part of the Acceptable Use Policy that pertains to products is “You also may not sell, resell, or duplicate any Mozilla product or service without written permission from Mozilla.”
[Citation Required]
Otherwise, you're just attempting to obfuscate in an intellectually dishonest way.
~This~ ~comment~ ~is~ ~licensed~ ~under~ ~CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0~
[Citation Required]
You could read it, it's pretty short.
Here's what the AUP says about porn:
You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to:
- ...
- Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that includes graphic depictions of sexuality or violence,
- ...
So yeah, in that sense it "says what it says about porn." It's just that "what it says about porn" is in a list of things you can't use their services for and before the only mention of how to use their "product."
Through their various agreements and terms Mozilla makes a clear distinction between products and services and has clear guidelines on how you can use them. When the TOS says "obey the AUP" and the AUP says "don't use our services for porn and don't sell our products or services" then viewing porn with their product is not a violation of their AUP and thus not a violation of their TOS.
Ultimately, however, the final decision would have to be resolved in court.
Good point.
How would this work exactly? What keeps me from pieholing any telemetry or data Firefox tries reporting back to Mozilla?
Which domains would you block in pihole? How to find out where ff is calling to?
You probably can, but 99.9% of users won't.
99% are already not using Firefox 😅. I assume a larger portion of the Firefox user base is technically savvy.
It's time to move to LibreWolf I guess...
Even if you go though and adjust settings it is still better than stock Firefox
When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox.
I'm trying to parse this. If you take the basic bits, they're saying they can do anything with the info you give them.
When you upload or input information through Firefox (anything you do), , you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information.
The rest is just justification for the first part. They basically can use it in anyway they see fit.
Do these rights apply to forks?
Edit: These are the 2 I'm concerned about in the Acceptable Use policy:
- Violate the copyright, trademark, patent, or other intellectual property rights of others,
- Violate any person’s rights of privacy or publicity,
That means corporations can go after you for either.
Companies can go ahead you even without those two points.
But now Firefox has a leg to stand on when new standards would be forced upon them to prevent piracy and kiddie porn.
The age old argument of "Your browser is being used to bankrupt the movie studios and abuse children. What are you going to do about it?"
wtf Mozilla :(
This just means they can use the information you input in order for Firefox to work the way you expect it to. The purpose of the information collection is clearly stated:
to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox.
If Mozilla wants to limit their use of my input, why the do I need to give them a full, non-exclusive license?
Wouldn’t just ”exclusive” be the word that your argument would be better with?
So that they can process all your input.
"Something something AI"
Firefox works just fine without the ToS change. They are up to something.
But what does that actually mean? It just sounds as vague and non descriptive as possible, which is the worrisome part legally
In the privacy policy they state how and why they collect data. They also say how to potentially stop giving them this data
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#to-adapt-firefox-to-your-needs
Not sure how honest & reliable this is. It's bad enough that they decided for this.