Number 5 I think? I’ve lost count.
this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2025
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General aviation crashes are not uncommon.
We’ve had one commercial aviation crash in the US since Trump took office. That one crash had nothing to do directly with decisions he made (though decisions he has made certainly make them more likely as time goes on).
But the other four have been general aviation. Those types of accidents, unfortunately, occur more frequently. For example, in September 2024 a couple of men died in a crash near Provo, Utah. I know about this because my wife’s cousin knew them, and had recently spoken to the pilot about his new plane. But that crash wasn’t widely reported.
But since there was a commercial crash, followed by a crash of an air ambulance Learjet into a residential area, everyone is now reporting broadly on every incident. Just like how after Boeing had issues with the MAX8 and MAX9, everything that went wrong with a 737, even ones that were decades old, was suddenly “newsworthy” because people would click on headlines about Boeing. The kinds of maintenance issues that are normally just headaches for travelers and flight crews became national news, as long as the plane was a Boeing. Similarly, now it’s “anything with wings crashes, print it.”
I say all this not to defend Trump, or the year 2025, or anything like that, but just to provide context. You’re hearing about types of incidents you normally don’t hear about, and it’s making it seem like suddenly there are a lot of plane crashes.
This nuance would be so utterly disregarded if the tables were turned. Let him eat blame for every event that happens from this point forward.
It would be hypocritical to desire understanding of nuance from others but not possess it ourselves.
There is plenty to shit on Trump for. Including his continued gutting of the FAA. Future accidents will be his fault eventually, at this rate.
But I thought the dipshits putting Joe Biden “I Did That” stickers on gas pumps were complete morons. There’s no reason to stoop to the level of blaming everything you don’t like on the guy you don’t like. That’s simplistic tribalism and frankly stupid.
Did you miss the Toronto crash?
Which state is Toronto in again?
The 51st
/s
Did you miss the Toronto crash?
I’m not sure why you asked me this in response to this comment. The Toronto crash has nothing to do with anything I said there.
As for my previous comment in the chain, I made that comment roughly around the same time as the crash happened. So obviously I hadn’t heard of it yet.
Media frenzy is a real thing. If it sells, it prints.
It might be number six, there was also a crash today in Montreal, I think, and fortunately everyone survived.
Edit: here’s a link to the article.
lol. Definitely Toronto.
planes after shit heal Trump took office:
Before everyone jumps on politics, not every plane crash is Trumps fault. Small planes are roughly as safe as riding a motorcycle, stuff like this happens all the time.
If every train derailment can be blamed on Biden, then trump can fucking eat these.
Who cares — blame it all on Trump, or Musk, or DOGE. Shout it from the rooftops. This is a perfect cudgel to use against minarchists and MAGAs alike.
Where you getting the as safe as a motorcycle number? Aviation is usually very safe compared to automotive, and motorcycles are on the dangerous end of automotive.
Edit: looks like general aviation is 27x more deadly per mile than general driving, and about in the same ball park per mile as motorcycles. That's a lot higher than I thought.
I pasted the links elsewhere, but it's important to differentiate between general aviation (small planes, crop dusters, personal pilots, etc) and commercial flying.
Commercial flying is EXTREMELY safe, ridiculously so. The safety culture is amazing. General aviation does it's best, but at the end of the day people just aren't as responsible in small planes.
Do motorcycles need to get annuals to be considered road worthy? Do you need to pass a medical exam to get a motorcycle license? Do you need a different license to ride your motorcycle when it’s foggy or rainy?
If not, I disagree with your statement.
Not sure how anything you asked is relevant? At the end of the day, general aviation is not super safe to the standard that people expect from commercial / corporate flights.
https://pilotinstitute.com/is-flying-safer-than-driving/#personal-flights
Motorcycle:
16 to 18 fatal motorcycle accidents per million hours ridden
Personal flights:
21.1 fatal accidents per million flight hours
I'm really surprised at that.
Thinking about it though most bikers I know are young, have good reflexes and are mostly using a motorbike for commuting or travelling which is probably lower risk than the cliche teenage fool on a superbike my mind jumped to.
By contrast, the vast majority of light aircraft pilots I know are 60+, many 70+ with extensive health issues, heart problems and likely comparatively poor reflexes.
corporate aviation – the world of bizjets – is relatively safe. This sector only saw 0.48 fatal accidents per million flight hours from 2012 to 2021
General aviation overall:
9.5 fatal crashes per million flight hours
By contrast, the vast majority of light aircraft pilots I know are 60+, many 70+ with extensive health issues, heart problems and likely comparatively poor reflexes.
Totally. I have my student license and everyone at the field is much older than I am. There's a reason that some plane models are called things like "doctor killers".
Also there's a lot of random pilots up in places like Alaska or crop dusting in middle America that just don't give a fuck about anything. That tends to skew the stats a bit more I think.
You need a pilots license to fly an airplane at all. To fly in less than optimal conditions (ie fog) you need an IFR endorsement. You can get other endorsements like sea place, multi engine, high powered, etc.
To fly for payment at all you need a commercial pilots license. To fly a consumer airline, you need an ATP endorsement.
Depending on what type of license you have (private, commercial, ATP), you need pass a certain class of medical exam. Your license also dictates how often your medical needs to be renewed.
To achieve a PPL ( in the US) you need to pass a checkride and a written exam. You also need to pass a check ride for your instrument endorsement. I have no idea if you need to pass a written exam for a CPL, but you definitely need a check ride for that. And your ATP.
You also need to pass an annual mechanical inspection for your personal plane. For commercial it’s ever X hours ( I think it’s 1000?). No idea for ATP
Beyond that, you can lose the ability to fly your plane if the FAA or manufacturer identifies a defect in your plane and you have yet to get it fixed by the required procedure.
Did I mention it’s 40 hours flight hours minimum for a PPL and 1500 for ATP?
Oh and there are preflight checklists to verify that your plane is in working order BEFORE flight.
Thats all to say, flying is much much more stringent than riding a motorcycle.
Sure there’s a big difference between 40 and 1500 hours, but no matter how you slice it, there are greater pains to making sure flying is safer than driving
Plus planes are checked before every use, and very few people are flying light aircraft in a reckless manner.
I'd be very surprised if there were any stats to backup a claim that light aircraft are as dangerous as motorcycles.
Between 2012 and 2021, this segment saw 21.1 fatal accidents per million flight hours. Fatalities are down 24% from 2012, but it’s still over 27 times the driving fatality rate. That’s even more dangerous than riding a motorcycle.
Comparing accidents per hour might make sense if you’re only looking at them as recreational activities—but if you’re comparing them as forms of transportation, shouldn’t we be comparing accidents per mile?
Yeah you could totally make that argument. A cessna cruises at around 125 knots (143 mph) and google tells me the speed limit on a US highway is 85 mph.
It's still less safe than driving a car, and not as safe as people assume all flying is (thanks to commercial flying being amazingly safe).
Only cager squares follow the speed limit
24.83 fatalities in 2019 and 25.95 in 2018 per 100 million miles ridden on motorcycle according to the source of the other article: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812979.pdf
If we take the value for personal flights:
21.1 fatal accidents per million flight hours
I'm going to assume 125 mph as I'm skeptical of your 145 mph figure.
= 21.1 fatal per 125 million miles
= 16.88 fatal per 100 million miles of personal flights
I'd basically conclude that personal flights and motorbike are in the same ballpark whether you're looking at hours or miles.
No, I would agree that comparing by hour is reasonable. Most light aircraft use (in my area at least) is generally recreational. People are flying because they enjoy the hobby rather than because they have a destination in mind, therefore they'll fly for a long duration but the distance travelled might not be far
Trump's fault?? I thought we were blaming these on immigrants
Trump: Small price to pay for...
Advisor: Sir, the people were rich white assholes!
Trump: Such a tragic tragic loss! Hooch loss!