So they don’t use candles indoors after dark?
this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2025
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Shhhh… don’t question the holy thoughts.
"Innermeerkat, this is God speaking. I want you to bake me cupcakes. The good kind. You know the ones."
Don't question the holy thoughts.... cupcakes are delicious. ;)
Sinner!!!
I dunno, snopes seems to think that in context this is an exaggeration, but I'm less reliant on them alone these days. The wiki page on Greg does affirm that it seems to have happened, and pegs the source on this as McBrien, Richard (2000), Lives of the Popes.
So there may or may not be mitigating context here, but from what I'm reading the man was such a grundle that we owe him nothing. Amusingly, it seems he was quite intensely conservative, even as far as having opposed rail, calling them "roads to hell".
Let's go back to the old ways, get rid of street lighting but make it illegal to be outside after dark without a torch.
The Drake meme with the panels reading “gas lighting” and “gaslighting”
Haha, yes, but Geordi meme format.
I would actually prefer this. There are studies that claim that crime and suicide rates go down when cities turn off the lights at night.
Anyway, I'm not a big fan of many atheism posts here, the Catholic church had good sides, too. But black and white thinking it is, apparently.
this is actually part of my job, crime, and using enviromental context to reduce it. (as private security,)
If anyone gives you a blanket altruism about xyz reduces your risks of being broken into or reduces hoodlumism or something, it's usually safe to ignore them.
The only exception to that is deadbolts on residential doors. (and read that as "reduces"... if you're an idiot who parks a $500,000 cybertruck in the open and leaves your front door unlocked, you're a moron whose going to donate a cybertruck to the 'I need some joy' ridership fund.)
In any case lighting is very contextual. It's different for parks, different for streetways, and different for residential houses. even different neighborhoods. or between different sorts of apartment buildings.
this is actually part of my job, crime
Don't do crime bro.
but crime is sooo much fun
You've piqued my interest. I had read about something similar to the lights being piloted in one of the Scandinavian countries. Something to the effect of "using blue hued lights and reducing light pollution with scheduled lighting" was correlated with a reduction in criminal activity in piloted neighborhoods.
Would you happen to know anything about this? I never saw any follow up on it, but as a farm boy that moved into the city I definitely noted a change between dark at night and artificially lit at night
so, sweden had a meta study you might find interesting.
usually, IIRC, the current fad is going to amber lighting to prevent light pollution (it's less intrusive, and generally doesn't go as far,) or blue-tinged "for security" because... it goes further and is more intrusive.... Other ways of mitigating light pollution that don't rely on hue is mounting it high and in deep fixtures (like cans,) so it's focused down instead of out.
Other things that can provide lighting are things like garden luminaries along a pathway (this is less about security and more about safety, putting a small pool of light on the path,)
generally, studies are finding that there's a limited return to lighting everything up. being more strategic is more beneficial. Pathways and entryways for residences, with a timer or a schedule to turn it off at 3am when there's really no one around. (you are far, far FAR more likely to be broken into during the middle of the day. Drive a utility pedo-van and wear a plumber's coveralls. nobody is going to ask questions.)
There is an entire psychology to lighting though. Notice how, for example, at a movie theater, how the main entrance going to ticketing is super-well-light, and there's usually a decent amount of lighting in the front half of the lot, that tapers of to the back?
That's telling people coming in where to go. the side exits (if they have them;) are usually less-well light from the outside, and it's enough for people going out to see, but not so much it pulls people that way. The lighting cues in a theater are everywhere.
Same is true of the big shopping malls. utility halls the visitor's are not supposed to go down are less brightly lit, than the main hall. The color temperature of different sections of the mall is giving everyone cues about where you're at, and the kinds of stores you'll find along that wing. the parking lot lighting is brighter as you get closer to the mall proper,
in a park or social space like that, lighting a pavillion makes it inviting, If you're having problems with late-night-curfew breakers, turning the lights off actually reduces that. (because, hey, kids want to hang in well lit places too.). Generally, I'd suggest not turning lights out on kids, though. if there's a problem with teenage vandalism, the solution is to give them something else to do.
There is a difference between "we did this and it might have negative side effects. Let's reevaluate" and "we should not even try this because we should not try anything new, ever (because my imaginary friend in the sky said so, pinky-swear)"
At the time the Pope was not the only one to be wary of the changes the industrial revolution brought. The world was changing at an unprecedented rate and there was a lot of criticism of industrialisation(see the romantic movement).
Yeah, I'm with that pope on this one. Street lighting should be used way more sparingly than it is now.
I would actually prefer this. There are studies that claim that crime and suicide rates go down when cities turn off the lights at night.
Are they good studies that go into the probable reasons and mechanisms?
Is it, Less Lights => Less people outside at night => Less crimes?
Lesser workplace crimes against women, if women aren't allowed to work?
And the logic used by the church as it goes against some supposed natural order attributed to some imaginary being is criticised here.
Curious about the aspect on suicide tho
And to think that the Catholic Church was once against gaslighting.
throttle of evolution
According to Thoughty, the pope may have had a point, but for the wrong reasons. There used to be more polyphasic sleepers in the world before we had lights at night.