one X user claimed the website was "anti-free speech" after he said he was banned from the "comics" subreddit for denying that the tech mogul did a Nazi salute
That sounds like pro truth rather than "anti free speech", no?
this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2025
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Free speech means having to read and hear things you don't like or disagree with every now and again. I personally think bans should be restricted to hate speech or else we'll sleep walk in to an echo chamber.
Moderators on a private website don't actually have to put up with Nazi liars.
Nice opinion, you're entitled to that!
Learn the definition of "opinion."
I agree why I agree if you defend nazi then that is hate speech and he was rightly banned.
Freedom of speech is not a freedom to lie.
Damn, now you got me defending fucking Musk on this issue.
Freedom of speech is also the freedom to lie. However, that just means the state can't arrest you for your speech. Nobody owes you a platform for your free speech.
That said, Elon Musk is a turd sandwich.
That's true and I appreciate that different opinions are often unwelcome, I'd still rather that than end up in an extremely boring echo chamber where the "conversation" is not much more than a circle jerk.
Freedom of speech is also the freedom to lie
Again, it is not. Freedom of speech is a freedom to receive information and exchange ideas. Not a freedom to lie.
Are you a USian by any chance? They quite often misunderstand what freedom of speech is.
Yes, but in this case we are not talking about a lie, we are talking about an opinion which you yourself consider a lie.
It comes back to objective truth Vs opinion which I have already replied to you about.
Regardless of this, there are cases where lying is protected by the first amendment.
https://www.freedomforum.org/is-lying-protected-first-amendment/
The example of where lying is not protected in the case to which we are referring would be:
Be a provable assertion of fact (not an opinion)
Yes, but in this case we are not talking about a lie, we are talking about an opinion which you yourself consider a lie.
You are going around in circles. I already told it it is fair enough - if he genuinely believed Muskler was not performing a nazi salute, it just makes him deluded. I however consider it unlikely, and if it indeed is not the case, that means he was lying.
Furthermore, Muskler himself never denied him making a nazi salute, making people denying it even more likely to lie rather than simply being mistaken.
Again, it is.
Show me the legalisation where it is illegal to lie. How is it enforced? Who enforces it? Who arbatrates it?
Freedom of speech is a moral right, and nothing more. If you start arresting people on perceived lies, that is a very dangerous slippery slope. I hope that the Donald doesn't start arresting people who he believes is lying. Where will THAT stop?
And, no, I'm not Asian, tho I don't understand your asking.
Again, it is.
Again, it isn't. Read the fucking definition and educated yourself.
'Freedom of speech is the right to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, by any means.'
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/free-speech-freedom-expression-human-right
https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights
And, no, I'm not Asian,
Who was talking about Asians? I asked if you are a USian. Someone from USA. People from USA often misunderstand what freedom of speech is.
sigh
Again it is.
Neither of those links suggested that it was illegal to lie. Why not? Because it is fucking impossible to tie that rule into a working possibility. Go read your own links yourself, because it is obvious that you haven't.
It talks about limitations on hate speech, etc, but you can lie without hate speech.
Freedom of speech is an ideal, and is tied to state control of speech. There are all kinds of limitations, including public safety and defamation, etc. But if I called you a Martian, obviously that is a lie. What happens? Does the free speech police lock me up?
I'm not interested in personal attacks, by the way.
Again it is not.
Neither of those links suggested that it was illegal to lie
Which part of "the right to seek, receive and impart information and ideas" caused you trouble?
So, are you a USian?
I'm not sure if you are trolling or not, because any plain English reading is obvious
Your own quote, as set out below...
"the right to seek, receive and impart information and ideas"
That also applies to incorrect information ideas... or... lies. Or the truth... Or fantasy... Or anything in between...
It doesn't specify truth or otherwise. You are free to assume anything you care to - but it's not in the actual text.
As to your question, I have no clue about your insistence on me being whatever the thing is you keep repeating.
Well if this person truly believes it wasn't a Nazi salute, then he's not lying.
I believe ghosts aren't real, but that doesn't mean I think anyone that has seen a ghost is lying, I truly believe that they think they saw a ghost.
There's a huge difference between an objective truth and a widely agreed upon opinion.
It's weird that this issue only comes up when it comes to defend nazi shit and not with other things. I'll give you a specific example: I posted this on r/ShowerThoughts: "Incest is like pissing in your gene pool". I think it's pretty good, but mods deleted my post because it goes against community guidelines. If I got into an argument with the mods and got banned from r/ShowerThoughts, I wouldn't be going around crying about "freedom of speech", because it's dumb, and communities have rules.
These arguments are always about normalizing nazi shit. Fuck that.
The difference here is that you made a post against community guidelines. Where as in this case the guy seems to have been banned for wrong think.
I'm not arguing that communities can't have their own rules.
Possibly defending Nazis was against community guidelines...? Pretty doublespeak of you to call one example "against guidelines" and the other "wrong think" and I'm sure I know why you do it.
We're back to opinion Vs fact, again!
At the end of the day, until Musk comes out and says, "it was a Nazi salute and I'm a Nazi", it will be up to opinion and everyone has a right to share their opinion.
and I'm sure I know why you do it.
I really don't appreciate the insinuation but the least you could do is grow a pair, come out and say it.
Well if this person truly believes it wasn't a Nazi salute, then he's not lying
Agreed, that makes him deluded instead. Not many people however are stupid enough to be able to analyse Musk salute and belive it wasn't a nazi one.
I'm not getting in to the Musk debate, I'm quite frankly bored of it, just let me know if he does it again.
I'm only here to defend freedom of speech.
I'm just here to defend freedom of speech.
Ensure you understand it first:
'Freedom of speech is the right to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, by any means.'
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/free-speech-freedom-expression-human-right
Thus my point that freedom of speech is not a freedom to lie or a freedom to spread hate or encourage violence (this is a general point, I am not referring to your views in particular).
Honestly, that's very insulting and I don't appreciate the insinuation. I know very well what the freedom of speech entails and I donate monthly to amnesty international.
Honestly, that's very insulting and I don't appreciate the insinuation.
All I would say is that you picked up a very odd example to defend the "freedom of speech".
That's just the thing, freedom of speech is for everyone, not only the people you like and agree with, this conversation has come full circle now.
freedom of speech is for everyone, not only the people you like
Where is this one coming from now?
I think the prior comments provide adequate context. I've said everything I have to say on the issue and I'm bored now. Have a nice day.
So where was this one coming from now?
"Reddit continues to be anti-free speech," Cedric Hohnstadt said on X. "I just got a lifetime ban from the 'comics' subreddit. Yesterday, I posted a humor comic that got over 5,400 upvotes. Then I noticed that there was a pinned post from the moderators saying that comics linked from X could no longer be shared because Musk gave a Nazi salute. I commented saying no he didn't. The moderator accused me of being pro-Nazi, banned me permanently for life, and deleted all my past posts from the 'comics' subreddit. But somehow Elon Musk is the totalitarian?" The post has been viewed 3.7 million times.
Amazing that a blind man can draw comics.
It sucks to get banned for life from somewhere you love for doing something you didn't feel was wrong, but holy hell, Musk absolutely threw up a Nazi salute.
The post has been viewed 3.7 million times.
Assuming this is the info box in new Reddit, those stats always felt... wrong
The difference between comments/votes and supposed "views" made it seem like the later was inflated.
Even more obvious was when something got posted at odd hours of the night in a local community. The view count would take off shortly after, while the comments and votes would only show up around when people wake up.
I think you severely underestimate the amount of people who just browse and don't interact with stuff.
"Reddit continues to be anti-free speech," Cedric Hohnstadt said on X.
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With how active r/fednews has been, no surprise
SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU NAZI FUCK
Well said, if a little too understated even. In germany, some mention the nuremberg trials and nazis immediately shit their pants. Give it a read if you like.
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Reddit's about to get shittier. Again. Either they'll kowtow to Musk and make it against the rules to ban X links or they'll give some bland, noncommital, centrist statement about how they respect the hard work their mods put in to keep Reddit going or whatever. I really doubt they'll make any unequivocal statement condemning Musk as the neo-Nazi shitbag he is.
The second reddit pulls some pro-Elon conservative bullshit, expect Lemmy to be FLOODED.
Reddit is a liberal haven and there will be a mass exodus if they toe the President Musk line.
If the API price-gouging scandal didn't bring them all over already, then you might be surprised just how many continue to hang on there, even after this one. And the next one. And the next.
It's just how people are. We don't want to change.
It will bring some people over. But I doubt there will be a flood.
The API and pricing bullshit would have had 0 impact to people that (somehow manage to) us the Reddit app.
It affected power users, mods and technically proficient people.
If communities have agreed to take a stance against musk/twitter/Nazis and Reddit overruled that, then I imagine an exodus of people that the API debacle didn't affect.
But I don't imagine it will be huge. Luckily, it will likely be decent people. So Reddit will slip more into a cesspool. And maybe more people will leave
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